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Thursday, November 16, 2006

REPUBLICANS WILL HAVE A HARD TIME LURING HISPANICS - EL VOTO HISPANO EN EL 2008

Can the Republican Party's appointment of Cuban-born Sen. Mel Martinez, a Florida Republican, as its national chairman help revert its loss of Hispanic voters in the Nov. 7 elections? Or have Hispanics effectively told the Republican Party, ``Hasta la vista, baby?'' Read the full column here, with my opinion on how Hispanics will vote in 2008, and let us know what YOU think.

24 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The appointment of Mel Martinez is a mistake. Martinez is Cubano and the biggest problems the GOP has are with voters of Mexican descent who as opposed to Cubanos are not well disposed toward the GOP. There are many differences and some animosity between the two groups although both are classified as being Hispanic.

Apparently, the GOP thinks one size fits all.

Personally, I would have chosen someone like Henry Bonilla from Texas although I am rather happy they didn't.

1:45 PM  
Anonymous george said...

Andres:

I don't agree with your article because the average Joe only knows that now the
Democrats are in control and if nothing more is accomplished then the Dems will
be the party who actually started construction on the fence.

The Dems built the fence, which will be the rallying cry from the Republicans.
Republicans can always argue that in addition to the fence, they also wanted
the guest worker program (can you say bully-pulpit?). But no, the Dems opposed
anything more than building a wall. And since the Dems are in control, they
had the power to pass a Hispanic friendly immigration law, but didn't.

You'll see a Hispanic flip in the 08 election.

Sincerely,

George

9:05 PM  
Anonymous Alejandro Amorós said...

Mr. Oppenheimer, I value and respect your opinion but on your continued belief that Hispanics have said "ciao" to Republicans, I think that is an exageration. It may be the dream of the Democrats, which can only happen if the Democrats can lure the Hispanics into the plantation in which they have kept the majority of Blacks in this country. Offering some kind of amnesty to illegal immigrants could be one of the many lures they can use. The other, following that one, is to offer them a welfare system with universal health care.

10:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thorsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

åndrês, first off, it's "illegals", not "undocumented".
Secondly, the USA does not owe citizensip to any of you Hispanics nor do they owe you people the right to come here and work. The Anglos are NOT the babysitters/caretakers of the Hispanic race of people.
The USA was created by Anglos, not Hispanicks. This is THEIR country. THEY choose who comes into THEIR country, not you people. THEY choose what language we speak, not those who forced their way into the USA when life was easy in the last 40 years.
You Hispanicks think you can invite yourselves into any rich society in the world you want to and rob it blind of all their wealth, as is the historic legacy of Hispanicks.
The USA will rue the day they ever allowed Hispanicks in here. Not only have you people ruined every society you ever settled, but you people hate the USA/"Anglos", seeing them as the hated historic rivals of your beloved Spaniards. You people have no shame at all.

10:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thorsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

The USA/Anglos will rue the day they ever let Hispanicks into their country. They could have allowed in Filipinos, Southeast Asians and Mahatma Gandhi Indians to do the work now done by Hispanicks. Those people dont hate the USA as Hispanicks do and don't think the USA owes them anything.

10:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey you Paul Thorsen from ABBA
We hate you. We will knock your door and tell you what we think about Anglos.

I don´t care who own this place. It doesn´t matter. Now, and forever We will be living here. And, If you don´t like it, feel free to return to europe.
Have You understand me?

Pedro "AntiAnglo" Teodoro
pete@aol.com

12:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry Paul Thorsen, It was just a joke. I make me feel nervous because you are really hard with Hispanics, when most of them are giving their lives for the USA.
Please, think about it.

Greatings.

Pedro Teodoro
pete@aol.com

12:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thorsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

åndrês, help me understand. Just 150 years ago, it was criminal trespassing for any non-Hispanick to set up their own independent society far from any Spanish town, but within land Spaniards regarded as within their boundaries, even though it was actually Indian land. Those people in independent societies would be hunted down and killed. That seemes to be the Spanish way.
But now, 150 years later, you same people expect to not just create your own independent societies within USA territory, you expect to force your way into already established cities and be given our best jobs, or else you will sue for "discrimination". And you expect to dictate what language we speak and demand will give full Spanish names to our cities and streets.
Oh, and if we don't do all that, we are "racists". Right?


from "North American Exploration", by Michael Golay, copyright 2003
page 209
In 1775 Domingo Del Rio conducted a Spanish military expedition to the Orcoquiza and Bidai Indians west of the Trinity River in East Texas to investigate reports of French incursion....

page 157
Leaving on June 24, 1588, to return to Saint Augustine, Gonzalez sailed along the western shore of the Outer Banks and found debris from English colonists but failed to find evidence of the English Roanoke Colony on Roanoke Island; he reported that the English had disappeared.

page 169
After sailing from Spain by way of Puerto Rico, Menendez arrived off Florida's Atlantic shore on August 28, 1565, with five ships carrying some eight hundred persons. There he founded Saint Augustine, while at the same time brutally killing, capturing, and driving out the French under Philip II's order.

5:34 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My dear Mr. Thorsen, I have come to expect your racist rants. That's a given factor. However, since you extol English usage, could you be so kind as to provide us with exemplars of that usage which are free of grammatical errors, spelling errors, and poor syntax. It would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

1:18 PM  
Anonymous andres c said...

Paul,

Did the "anglos" invite you (norwegian) into their country? or you just consider yourself anglo because you are white?

Here are some interesting facts:

"Iowa was opened, organized, and settled by a generation of native migrants from other states. According to the first federal census of Iowa in 1850"

"They were joined in the 1850s by Dutch immigrants seeking religious liberty, and in the 1860s and 1870s by Norwegians and Swedes."

http://www.city-data.com/states/Iowa-Migration.html

Although norwegian settlers may have created their own towns in Iowa you were occupying an area that could had been used to expand real anglo towns.

Did anglos invite your japanese wife into the US? I dont think so considering japan was so hated by americans just a few years ago.

Are your kids anglos? Since you use the race to divide people between the people with the right to live there and the others who dont. You better send them back to japan.

11:52 PM  
Anonymous andres c said...

(where they wont be liked either)

11:55 PM  
Anonymous andres c said...

The only reason why poor european inmigrants who came to the USA in the 1800's created their own towns was because they were so many in comparison to the original americans, that there was no jobs in the cities or original towns for you. Its also important to know that in that time the economy wasnt as it is today. Most people worked in their farms, so your family PAUL, as the other excesive inmigrants of that time, had to settle in empty places to have their own land. The difference today, is that inmigrants are taking jobs offered to them by americans and still there is no unemploiment, so the place they are occupying was left open for them.

I am sorry Paul, but real anglos (british) hated your people inmigrantion in the 1850's, just like they didn't like Irish coming to america. Those feelings still exist today in the area of new england and probably other places.

Dont come to tell us you vikings are british, you just show you are an ignorant who dont knows were he comes from.

12:18 AM  
Anonymous Eduardo said...

Muy buenas las ultimas tres notas que por falta de tiempo no he podido comentar. Excelente. No encierra el texto una manifestación pro-hispanica sino que refleja nítidamente la falsedad, ridiculez y el absurdo, que no se oculta, en la estupida persecución del terrorismo en el perfil hispano.
Mr Paul Thorsen, lo lamento, Ud. es una victima más del sistema educatico, un fracaso de alumno o un resentido social y un ente estancado más de tres siglos atrás.
Francamente, sus comentarios no provocan el más mínimo interés en debatirlos por la carencia de argumentos sólidos que contienen.
Cuando termine de instruirse regrese, está siempre invitado, a mi no me molesta el color de su piel ni la lengua que habla. He tenido muy buenas amigas y amigos de su raza, y hasta hemos intimado sin fijarnos en colores. A pesar de que prefiero las latinas, veo con orgullo como vuestras mujeres han aceptado con ánimo a nuestros caballeros. No tenemos miedo de tocarnos.

1:03 PM  
Blogger Truth Matters said...

Andres,

How do you manage to maintian a job at the Miami Herald when you continue to publish columns regarding immigration with misleading ideas, distortions, and flat out lies. Here are some examples from your latest column, "Martinez will have a tough time luring Hispanics" on 11/16/06

1. "The Republicans' immigrant-bashing rhetoric in the recent congressional campaign will come back to haunt them."

You (along with many other columnists) continue to label people such as myself, Lou Dobbs, and others as being opposed to "immigrants" without using the word ILLEGAL. We are opposed to ILLEGAL immigrants. Do you understand the difference Andres? We are not opposed to immigrants or immigration in general. We are opposed to ILLEGAL immigrants. For all future correspondences, I am going to capitalize the word ILLEGAL so that you don't forget it as you (and others) conveniently see to do in your columns.


2. "According to exit polls, Republicans won 27 percent of the Hispanic vote in the Nov. 7 mid-term election, way below the 42 percent of the Hispanic vote President Bush got in 2004."


According to the national exit poll that I saw http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/ushouse.pdf , it was 29%, not 27% Andres, but maybe you saw a different poll. Also, it's not fair to compare percentages in the 2006 election (a midterm election) to 2004 (a presidential election). Midterm elections generally have much lower turnout than general elections. If you compare the %'s between 2004 and 2006 the Hispanic % that went Republican went from 38% to 30%. However, this 8% difference mirrors the decline in White voters who voted Republican from 58% to 51%. So the truth is that Republican votes were down across the board and the decline in the % of Hispanic votes was no more significant than White votes.



3. "A massive 73 percent of Hispanics voted Democratic, because, among other things, many were infuriated by Republican anti-immigration rhetoric that seemed to depict all Hispanics as potentially dangerous aliens."



Again Andres, anti-ILLEGAL immigration rhetoric....



4. "``Did you know that on Dec. 16, 2005, Congress passed a Republican bill to turn millions of Hispanic undocumented workers into criminals, which would have allowed the police to stop Hispanics on the street just because of their appearance? If you want to prevent this from happening, vote Democrat.''


Oh boy Andres, they are not "undocumented workers", they are ILLEGAL immigrants. I think a more appropriate and effective ad would go as follows:

"Did you know that on May 25, 2006 the Senate passed a bill that would allow ILLEGAL immigrants to apply for citizenship while only paying a $2000 fine and only having to pay back taxes for 3 out of the last 5 years? Yes, that's right they don't have to pay income or social security taxes for every year like you and I, they get to skip 2 years of payments. If you want don't think its fair that lawbreakers get tax benefits, vote Republican.



5. "In fact, Graf was defeated on Nov. 7, like most other enforcement-only immigration hard-liners."



Well, Tom Tancredo was not defeated. Chris Shays was not defeated. Jon Kyl was not defeated. Brian Bilbray was not defeated and in fact increased his margin of victory from his special election held in June 2006.



6. "Or they could bring up President Bush's 700-mile fence on the Mexican border, which will push immigrants to cross through more dangerous, nonprotected areas along the 2,000-mile border."



Or perhaps it might push them to cross through legal checkpoints as THEY ARE REQUIRED TO DO BY US LAW.



7. "Democrats are likely to present it as a $7 billion waste of money to mollify the xenophobic right."



There it is Andres. I knew it was only a matter of time before you resorted to namecalling. I'm just suprised it took you this long. Seriously, why can't you people write one article or have one debate without calling someone a name??



8. "Hispanics are projected to amount to 10 percent of all U.S. voters in the next presidential vote, and most Hispanics happen to live in California, New York, Texas, Florida and Illinois, the states with the most votes in the electoral college."



California, New York are solidly Democratic---even if all 70% of Hispanic changed their minds and decided to vote for Republicans, they (R) would still have a tough time winning in those states. Texas is solidly Republican and Florida has been trending Republican. So Illinois (which has been trending Democratic) is the only state of those 5 mentioned which would possibly have its outcome changed or shifted because of this massive increase in Hispanic votes.



9. "Republicans could revert the Hispanic stampede if the upcoming Congress approves an immigration reform that includes a path to citizenship for millions of undocumented workers"



Andres, again, let's try this together. not "undocumented workers"----ILLEGAL immigrants.



10. "Hispanics will see President Bush's party as the party that looks at Hispanics as potential criminals, erects walls on the border and jokes about bullet-ridden vests taken away from dead migrants."



Andres, not all ILLEGAL immigrants are Hispanic (as your side would have us believe). Only around 77% are. And we are not looking at Hispanics as potential criminals. We are looking at people who came here illegally, don't pay taxes, and use public services as potential criminals (which they are, at least according to the Wesley Snipes case where he was charged with a CRIME for not paying taxes, which would make him a CRIMINAL). In terms of putting walls on the borders, the majority of Americans from all parties favor that. And regarding this joke, it was clearly inappropriate and the fact that you try to use the actions of one person to smear an entire party is pathetic. The same could be done for people on your side such as Cindy Sheehan who has called the president a "terrorist" a "murderer" a "war criminal" etc. or there was an Alabama Democratic candidate for Attorney General who denies the Holocaust. Ok, if we lump you and all other Democrats together with those points of view? Ok, cool...


Finally Andres, I must close with signature line that I am going to use in every email or posting from now on,



"And as to Andres Oppenheimer, partner,you’re a liar, and you ought to be ashamed."

Lou Dobbs 5/10/2006

10:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thorsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

Hey "Truth Matters", it's not just ILLEGAL immigration I am against, it's Hispanick immigration I will do everying in my power to stop. Those people hate the USA, seeing the USA as an extensiuon of the UK, the hated historic rivals of theur beloved Spaniards. Hispanicks, whether they be LEGAL or ILLEGAL immigrants, refus eto speak English, ttey go all-out to force their langauge and culture on the USA, they boo USA international sports teams, they won't be caught dead in an American made car, they can't bear to give their kids American names, they smuggle tens of billions of dollars out of the USA every year, they refuse to acknowlege that the English created the USA, they blame the USA for all the problems in the world.....

12:47 PM  
Blogger Truth Matters said...

Hey Paul,

Speak for yourself. As someone who is married to a legal immigrant (and no she isn't Hispanic---I notice you repeatedly spell the word with a k which must be intentional given your extremely narrow view), I am not opposed to legal immigration by any means. The process should actually be easier for those that are educated, hard-working, English proficient, and law-abiding--i.e. people who would make society better whether they are Hispanic, Asian, African, European, or whatever.

While it is true that there are some that refuse to learn English, and try to force the US to accept their culture rather than existing US culture (MECHA is an excellent example), these are a small minority (at least among educated middle-income and higher immigrants). I work at a school which has many immigrant families esp from Latin America and these kids have American names, and drive American cars and speak English. Maybe for poorly educated illegal immigrants its different, but it's really not fair or accurate to paint all Hispanics in the same category as a small few. That's the kind of crap that people like Andre use repeatedly to call all people who want border enforcement "anti-immigrant" when most (such as myself) are really just opposed to ILLEGAL immigration.

5:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Despues de leer todas las discusiones solo me queda por concluir que el mundo está perdido.

Las fronteras que tenemos en nuestro interior son muchos mas fuerte que cualquier muralla que se pueda construir.

Habra sido diferente alguna vez?

Será tan dificil reencontrarnos? O mejor dicho encontrarnos???

Podremos alguna vez poder sentirnos como en un todo, con seres humanos de otras razas, religiones, partidos políticos, elecciones sexuales, también por que no con animales, plantas...

Si tan solo pudieramos cambiar la perspectiva podriamos ver que somos habitantes de un planeta al que debemos cuidar.

Si no hacemos un esfuerzo, tanto anglos como latinos, noruegos, japoneses, chinos, africanos, etc terminaremos destruyendonos unos a otros como lo estamos haciendo con nuestro planeta.

Tal vez esto suene a delirio, pero si no hacemos algo en ese sentido terminaremos festejando nuestro triunfo egoista en un cementerio.

Saludos,

Ruben P.
Rosario - Argentina
rubpen@gmail.com

12:03 AM  
Anonymous andres c said...

Andres,

Me parece que exageras con eso de que los republicanos están arruinados con el voto hispano, asi como me parecía que exagerabas con la posibilidad de un desastre latinoamericano por los pocos candidatos pro-Chávez que podían ganar elecciones (centroamerica y Ecuador) una vez que los principales países ya habían elegido presidentes moderados.

La gente vota por las personas que les ofrecen lo que los votantes perciben como mejor para ellos o que les ofrecen terminar con lo percibido como problemas.

Los republicanos perdieron por la guerra en Irak, por su mal manejo de la economía y por su ineficiente combate al problema de la inmigración, todos saben que un muro no arregla nada. Sin embargo, no significa que para siempre estén condenados. Simplemente cuando armen mejores propuestas se recuperarán. Salvando las distancias, no te olvides de Alan garcía y su ejemplo de cómo el peor presidente de la historia, una vez cambiado, puede llegar para salvarnos a todos.

12:07 AM  
Anonymous Eduardo said...

Si claro, hay dos partidos mayoritarios y cada cierto tiempo ellos acceden al poder indistintamente. Lo malo es no darse cuenta de los errores.

I think I’d just commit suicide”
John McCain, Republican Senator from Arizona, joking about what he would do if Democrats gain control of the House and Senate.
“I don’t want to face that eventually, because I don’t think it’s going to happen.”

Al final eso sucedió, pero John McCain no se suicidó. “..pienso que me suicidaría…no quiero enfrentar esa eventualidad porque no pienso que eso pasará…”
Los Democratas ganaron el Senado y la Cámara de Representantes.

la verdad es que ya no queda nadie sin darse cuenta de lo mal educado que es Mr. Thorsen. Ni siquiera su propia raza, como parece llamarla él, que no es la hispana. (parece que su ignorancia le presenta a la "hispanidad" como una raza).
Back to School Dear Mr.Thorsen!

11:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Andre,


Your opinion is very accurate. Hispanics are enduring horrible discrimination, racism, and sometimes racist attacks outside of Miami.

Much of the conservative rhetoric has driven these ugly acts against Hispanics.

The commentors who are telling you that your opinions are bullcrap do not have a clue.

Cuban-Americans have a privileged and sheltered life in Miami, unlike most other Hispanics who attempt to make America home.

The Cuban-Americans always seem to ignore the racist and cruel conservatives who they swear allegiance to.

Nevertheless, good piece Andre. Please continue to shine the spotlight on the subtle code words which the conservatives use to speak to each other on the airways in this nation.

And if that Trancredo runs for President, as many in Washington D.C. expects. Then i hope you roll up you sleeves and tell every voting Hispanic exactly who this conservative BIGOT is.

10:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thorsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

Hey anynomous, don;t be using terms like "bigot" or "racist" here. Make your point and if it is compelling enough you don't have to resort to calling people names. Calling names just makes you enemies. The USA chooses who they want in their country, it's isn't up to you Hispanics to decide who we let in. And if the "Anglos" don't want a people here who refuse to speak English and who try to force their language and culture on the USA, then so be it. Accept it. Just as you decide who comes and goes into your domicile. No different.
You Hispanics wanted countries devoid of scientists/nerds and wanted it stocked full of a people of a violent and criminal nature, and now you are paying the price.

11:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Paul,

deberias crearte un usuario registrado porque me parece que hay gente que usa tu nombre para firmar comentarios que tu no escribiste, como este último por ejemplo. Aunque las ideas parecen las mismas tiene errores y un estilo que no veía en tus otros comentarios.

En los comentarios del artículo siguiente hay otro comentario supuestamente tuyo que otra persona dice que tu no escribiste.

4:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Republicans have lifted the anti-immigrant rhetoric directly from white supremicist groups. It has nothing to do with security. As Pat Buchanan said on TV recently "he wants to go back to a time when the US was 90% white"! Unfortunately for the Republicans and the guys in the white hoods half the children in the US are already non-white. Old Dixie is shrinking and the Republicans are consigning themselves to a permenent minority status as the party of the old South.

12:31 PM  
Anonymous andres c said...

not all hispanics are black or american indians descendants, there are white ones. Despite they are not as white as british descendant americans, I dont think you can reduce all hispanicks to one group

7:02 PM  

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