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Thursday, November 09, 2006

HISPANICS SAY "ADIOS" TO G.O.P. - LOS HISPANOS LE DICEN "ADIOS" A LOS REPUBLICANOS

ATLANTA -- Hispanics said ''adiós'' to President Bush's Republican Party in Tuesday's midterm elections, voting in much greater numbers than expected for Democratic candidates in an apparent rejection of the ruling party's efforts to blame much of the nation's problems on undocumented migrants. About 73 percent of Hispanics voted for the Democratic Party on Tuesday, while only 26 percent voted for Republican candidates. In the 2004 presidential elections, 55 percent of Hispanics voted Democrat and about 42 percent voted Republican. Read the full column here, and let me know what YOU think.

26 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

You certainly are correct that Hispanic voters helped ensure the Democratic victory in this week's elections, but I think that you missed the larger picture presented by the increase in Hispanic immigration to our country.
Since, except for the aboriginal population, none of our ancestors were born
here, we are all immigrants. My own forebears arrived here at the end of the nineteenth century during what was heretofore the largest wave of immigration to our shores and certainly suffered the same fate as all new immigrants. They arrived with no skills, speaking no English, and lived in the squalor of lower Manhattan, but the first generation born here broke out and all became successful.

Today's world is certainly changed from those times. While all politicians pander to ethnic groups, wearing funny hats and eating ethnic foods for the
cameras, a sea-change was about to engulf politics and American culture. It
began in Orange County, California, in 1996 when incumbent Bob Dornan was
defeated by Loretta Sanchez with the help of noncitizen voters. Now, the
dead have helped elect candidates to all offices since the beginning of
time. Ballot stuffing in Illinois and Texas helped make John Kennedy
president. Here, in 1997, Miami made history by being the first major
American city to have its mayoral election overturned by the courts for the
above reasons.

The 2000 census, released in 2002, showed that there were more Hispanics living here than blacks. This fact alone would change the shape and fate of our nation. This group of minorities, normally the province of Democrats,
were suddenly no longer so minor. The Republicans started running all over
themselves to cater to this newly discovered source of votes. "Illegal
alien" became a "nonterm" in PC Newspeak. Border issues disappeared. The
now-defunct INS, which was initially corrupted by the Clinton administration
to register a million new Democrat voters for the 1996 election, lost
whatever will it still had to the service of the new potential Hispanic
voter.

What, one may ask, is the difference between this new immigrant group and
all others that have been pandered to? What is the animosity that Hispanic
immigration generates among citizens of this "Nation of Immigrants?" The
liberal culture of modern-day America has decided that Hispanics, like
blacks, cannot possibly achieve success without liberal help. While all
other groups had to learn English, Hispanics didn't. (Miami in the sixties
was different because the initial Cuban immigrants felt that they would soon
return to Cuba and wanted to keep their culture intact.) Atzlan, Mecha, and
La Raza are certainly not terms used in the "melting pot."

Any American not living in South Florida or a border state feels that
"Press 1 for English" is like sitting helplessly in the corner and watching
your roof leak in a storm knowing that the leak will get bigger and bigger.
For the first time we had an immigrant group that was not interested in
immigrating.

What is America? Some say that it was merely a land of boundless resources
whose stone-age indigenous population could not defend against the onslaught
of superior European technology. If that is the reason, then why is
Argentina a basket case? A land of unlimited resources the size of the
United States and settled by these same Europeans?

America's uniqueness in the world is what makes it America. But, America
must remain America to be America. Unbounded invasion by aliens is
overcoming our culture and resources. Mexicans coming here just to work and
send money back to Mexico are stealing our national sustenance. (I know,
the few dollars that I send to Tia Maria in Cuba is just to help her out and
in no way sustains Castro even though my few dollars and your few dollars
add up to a billion dollars a year just from Miami to Cuba alone.)

But, you say, without "undocumented" laborers, produce would cost $10 a
pound. It already does, but you don't notice it because the cost of that
produce is charged to health care, social services, schools, and law
enforcement.

Democrats love unlimited, uncontrolled immigration because all immigrant
groups vote for the party that gives them something. Here is their chance
to change American politics in a single generation. Voters are motivated by
what they have to lose. Past immigrant groups eventually made it to middle
class and started voting Republican when they realized that they graduated
from "have not" status to "halves." Tens of millions of newly arriving, not
interested in our culture and language, and motivated by nothing more than
"free" health care and "free" public resources, will never make it out of
lower class poverty and will vote Democrat forever. The Republican party certainly is doomed. So is the Republic.

12:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Andres
European Community has integrated similars countries like Poland, Serbia, etc. But they didn't open the african border.

Latin america is for the US what Africa is for Europe.

Therefore US should not deal alone with this problem. The G8, IMF, World Bank must be commited and helping to reduce the huge incomming gap between richs and poors countries.

I'm not optimist about that. :-(


Greetings,


Ruben P.
Rosario - Argentina
rubpen@gmail.com

3:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am glad that the Democratic party won. I believe that they are more reasonable and less conservative party, that can revolutionize the US immigration policies. This needs to be done if Americans really want to decrease the number of illegal immigrants comming to this country. The immigration polices have to be changed. All immigrants should be treated equaly, (white, black, Cubans and the rest of Latinos, Europeans etc). Since I came to Miami in 2001 from Europe I realized that some immigrant groups living here are just taking advantage of their countries political situation to come here, even though they had chance to change this situation not long time ago, they chose not to (how convenient). The illegal immigration should be stopped by giving people the oportunity to come and work here legally. The illegals who are already here, often for many years, pay taxes and speak perfect English should be allowed to get permanent residency and citizenship. This country let them in, they were hired by American employers, and they definitely earned the right to become Americans. All dependents of the temporary workers should be allowed to work - it is rediculous that Americans expect from those people to seat at home for years (sometimes more than 5 years) and not do anything. They are either naive or worse if they think that they won't work - people would go crazy. Obviously the republican propaganda did not work and Americans were smart and wise enough to get rid of them. I hope that the Clinton type era will start again soon. Good luck to this country!

6:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to the surprise of most including myself... I am a Democrat

The hypocrisy and corruption of many Republicans reminded us what we left behind in Latin America

The patronizing attitude of the NorthEast Democrats rubs against most people not just Hispanics in Florida.

The margin was very tight and in no way implies a mandate for the Haight-Ashbury sycophants either.

I think more remarkable than more Hispanics voting Democratic was a
total reversal of white independents who voted 3 to 1 for Bush in 2000 and 2004 and this time voted for Centrist Democrats
as opposed to a degenerate Mark Foley ,or a Corrupt Congressman caught with their hand in the cookie Jar.!!!!
Also people including Hispanics voted the Economy

Florida having only 3% unemployment and a State Democratic establishment that does not bother with us unless we are Union members or maids stayed overwhelmingly Republican.

Immigration is one issue

Another one might be that poor persons of every color including
whites serve their country bravely
in Iraq while the elites
like Jeb Bush's son JP Bush preach to us about the war on terror safely from the home bench.

6:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from Paul Thorsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

Hey anonymous, the first poster, whites are not immigrants to the USA. Anglos and other northern Europeans came here and set up our own societies independent of anyone else. They didn't come here desperate to join naitve Indian society. That makes Anglos settlers of the USA, not "immigrants".
Hispanicks on the other hand, are headed directly for the society created by the Anglos and they will not be stopped. That makes them immigrants to Anglo society.
Secondly, Hispanicks have no intention at all to assimilate into USA society. They want all us Americans to adopt to them and their ways and to speak their language. It's all about pride. Hispanicks are a very proud people and because they see the USA as an extension of the UK, the hated hisitoric rivals of heir absolutely beloved Spaniards, they feel humiliated to have to sneak in here to be able to live decent lives. And so they hate. The hate shows up in different ways: their total refusal to accept English as our language, their total refusal to recognize the USA as a a soveriegn, independent country, their refusal to be caught dead in an American car, how they wave foreign flags all over the USA, how they can't bear to give their kids American names.
Hispanicks also want their own successful spanish speaking country they can be proud of, but because they are not able to create their own such country, they will just steal the USA from the Anglos and call it their own.

9:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Democratic victory was clearly based on the war in Iraq and Bush fatigue. To claim otherwize is just opportunistic and silly. However, your suggestion that we should try to match Nicaragua's per capita income of $2900 per year was intriguing. Perhaps with you advice, we'll get there!

10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from Paul Thorsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

hey ändrês from Arhentina, the thing that gets me about you Spanish people is how Spain sends back Senegalese trying to make it to their shores, desperate to take part in the society created by the European Union, not by Spaniards. BUt they are sent back by the Spanish government. Now here in the USA, the same Spanish people (Cubans) expect to sneak into the USA by boat and curiously expect us to let you people stay. That after you same people return Africans to Africa. I got real problems with that.
I think Spaniards would be aghast if Senegalese living in Spain were flying planes over the Atlantic looking for African boaters and trying pick them and and bringing them into Spanish society, and even demanding Spain adopt the Senegalse language (Wolof) as an official language of Spain and demanding all Spanish schoolids be taught Wolof to "accept the changing demograhpics of Spain".

http://www.africafocus.org/docs06/mig0609a.php
Chartered planes started flying illegal African immigrants back from Spain to Senegal last week, resuming a repatriation program aimed at stemming the flow of immigrants to this southern European country. But judging by experience, the return is unlikely to stop thousands of others from risking their lives in small boats to reach the Canary Islands from the West African coast, or finding other perilous ways of reaching the European continent.
More than 20,000 African immigrants have been intercepted this year in Spain's Canary Islands, including 6,000 in August alone. Rough estimates are that at least 1,000 a year are lost at sea attempting the perilous voyage in small boats.

10:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Paul
Paul Thorsen
What do you think about Hitler? Do you think is necessary a new "Final Solution" to the migration issue?
What do you want to do with those white-anglos employeers who hire spanish people?

9:35 AM  
Anonymous andres c said...

Para Anónimo,

Creeme que Paul T. es un caso perdido, he escrito miles de comentarios demostrandole las incoherencias de sus comentarios mucho más tendenciosos que los que acabas de leer (ya se moderó un poco) y sin embargo sigue neciamente con sus comentarios despectivos. Noto, Paul, que tus comentarios tienen un tono altamente reivindicativo, casi revanchista, como si sintieras que que te están acorralando para quitarte algo que es tuyo aunque no lo defines bien. Eso podría explicar que te tomes el tiempo de poner comentarios en una website sobre política latinoamericana, sobre todo teniendo en cuenta que vives en Iowa!!! No creo que a tantos miles de kilómetros te interese realmente lo que pasa en Miami o Mexico.

Por supuesto que eso que sientes que te están arrebatando es la white-america, que tu llamas Anglo and other northern europeans-america, simplemente no lo dices porque se vería mal decir defrente que te dan asco los inmigrantes del sur porque no son blancos. Tu desprecio por los inmigrantes tiene que ser racismo teniendo en cuenta que tu esposa es una japonesa que migró a USA y tu me has dicho en otros comentarios que si te parece bien la migración de japoneses.

10:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from Paul Thorsen

anonymous, Hitler was nuts. Jews are among the finest human beings to have ever walked the face of earth. I welcome any and all Jews that want into the USA. Hitler started a war that cost millions of lives.
But so did George Bush.
As far as Hispanicks, I want them to create their own successful countries. I don't want you people here so long as you people blatantly disrespect the USA as you do. You Hispanicks need to go find another country to live in, one you can be proud of. I think you people are very unhappy living in the USA. You despise our language. You despise our flag. You don't like our names. You people don't like American cars. You people don't like "Anglos". I guess that includes me, as I am white and speak English.

10:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Truth is that the republican party is a racist party that is intolerent of Spanish-speaking people. I can never and will never support a group of people that hate me b/c i speak Spanish.


I have pride, and apparently most other Spanish-speaking people do also.

11:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from Paul Thorsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

You absolutely would hate any people/language who forced their wya into your Hispanick country (Cuba?) and then refused to speak Spanish and went all-out to force their language on your country.
I don't hate anyone because they can speak Spanish. I do have problems when you Hispanicks try to force your language on the USA and when you refuse to learn English. Or how you people go to extreme lenghts to avoid speaking English. All because you people are tremendously proud and see the English language as the language of the hated historic rivals of your absolutely beloved Spaniards. You people refuse to see the English language as the language of the people who took you out of poverty and provided such good lives for you that so few people in the world can only dream of. Macho Hispanick pride will nebver allow Hispanicks to thank the "Anglos" for anything. Macho Hispanick pride will never allow Hispanicks to admit the Anglos even came up with just 1 invention. You people think they stole their inventions from others.

11:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Paul must live in "Hggialeah" or next to a migrant strawberry picker's compound (ay chihuahua!) That is the only place I can think of in Miami where "Cubans refuse to speak English." It's hard to be a lawyer, doctor, accountant, engineer, architect, politician or business owner and not speak ingrish in Miami ... or Hggialiah.

Maybe Cubans over 80, I may concede that one, but not for lack of trying.

Shit, my kids don't speak espaniol no matter how hard I try and make them do it! Oddly, they are studying Mandarin in school which may be better in the long run.

I think Paul is just baiting the visitors of Cuban heritage. He actually loves us! I bet he works for one of us!

Cheo Medalla

1:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Paul,

The republican party would still hate us even if every last one of us spoke Engish.

There are so many Hispanics dying in Iraq, and yet, the Republicans still have hatered in their heart for us.

Paul, i am glad that i live in a nation that has the Democratic Party. One that is not hostile to Spanish speaking people.

No sir, i will never, never caste a vote for a group of people that hate me because of the heritage.

Besides that we were here before you little nasty anglo ass.

2:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

From: Paul Thorsen

anonymous, all you Hispanicks claim "we were here before Anglos". Which is odd, because 99.99% of you Hispanicks here in the USA paid your life savings to be sneaked into the society created by the Anglos and the other 0.001% that were here in 1848 were negligible and inconsequential to the development of the USA into a world power.
Arawaks were in Cuba before Spaniards. Not just 0.001% of them, but 100% of them.

3:51 PM  
Anonymous andres c said...

Paul,

You say "our absolutely beloved Spaniards"??? I hope you ment hispanics, because if not you would only be showing you know nothing about us. We don't love spain, we don't hate them either, but since the independence wars neither spain or latin amercia has done any effort in rebuilding the relation.

Paul you seem really attached to the divisions by ethnic origins, anglos, nordics, spaniards,... Thats hard to do in an inmigrants country where everybody has something of everywhere. Do you consider your kids (half japan half Thorsen [nordic]) also anglos just because they speak english???
Who is more american from your point of view: my cousins (half hispanics [british and spaniard origins] and half all-american white [nordic origins]) or your kids (half asians half thorsen)???
My cousins speak spanish by the way. Who is more "anglo" my cousins or your kids?

9:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from Paul Thorsen

åndrëš ç, in fact, it was the USA/Anglos who developed Latin America to what it is today, not your beloved Spaniards. It was the USA that built your Panama Canal, the USA who put in all the infrastructure in Guatemala, the USA who put in your railways and trolleys all over Latin America and built your oil rigs and set up your telephone and electrical systems. Yet I see nothing but hatred of the USA from spansih speaking Latin America. I don't see that same hatred from Portuguese speaking Brasil. I am 100% convinced it's because Spain and England were historic rivals for hundreds of years and the English whipped the Spanish every step of the way, and you people see the USA as an extension of the UK. Portugal and England were never rivals in any way. Club Atlético Banfield was created by Edward Banfield, a British executive of the railroad company Gran Ferrocarril Sur.
William Wheelwright (1798-1873) was an American promoter who pioneered South American steamship, railroad, and telegraph construction.
The first horsecar line was built by James Horrocks, an English agent of the Paraguay Central Railway, whose steam line reached the Paraguayan capital in 1861.
Keith Minor and the United Fruit Company developed all the infrastructure in Guatemala. And again, I see nothing but hatred of the USA and pure, unadulterated love for anything Spanish even thought those people did nothing for you.

12:07 PM  
Anonymous andres c said...

Don't you see Paul, again with the divisions by ethnic origin...

The people you mention were european or american investors who moved to latin america to invest here, so what? Everywhere in the world foreigners move to other places to make business.

Probably panamanians are proud of their canal, just like you americans are proud of the liberty statue, but France built it. I being peruvian, dont care about that canal or guatemalas infrastructure. I really dont belive we see the US as an extention of the UK, but certainly you do Paul. Any problem that Spain could have had with the UK was 300 years ago and no one here cares about that.

Paul you havent answered my previous question: Who is more anglo my cousins or your kids???

7:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Por Nelson Rodriguez de Argentina.

El peor gobierno estadounidense de los últimos cien años ha caído estrepitosamente, gracias a la gran lección de democracia que le ha dado el propio pueblo norteamericano. Un grupo de amantes de la guerra y la violencia, más resabios de la época de Reagan, constituyeron a los llamados "neo-con", partiendo de un claro fraude en la Florida en el año 2000. Su única certeza era la guerra permanente contra los enemigos de Israel en el Medio Oriente (lo que, con el cinismo de S. Huntington, se llama "choque de civilizaciones"). Cientos de miles de muertos inocentes de las poblaciones civiles de Irak y Afghanistán y el recrudecimiento del terrorismo (fomentado por la propia política "republicana"), más otros desastres internos que como mínimo revelan imprevisión (como la falta de ayuda a los habitantes de New Orleans luego de Katrina), provocaron en el electorado estadounidense lo que Gabriel García Márquez podría llamar "Crónica de un repudio anunciado". Quizás de ahora en más se acabe la soberbia del bushismo, la guerra en Irak y el Tratado de Libre Comercio.

2:56 AM  
Anonymous andres c said...

Nelson,

Hasta donde se Argentina no tiene intenciones de firmar ningún TLC con EEUU ni ningún país parecido.

¿Por qué los argentinos se emocionan tanto atacando las intenciones de otros países que tienen como política de desarrollo la ampliación de mercados a través del TLC?

Osea no creo que les afecte que Peru firme un TLC, por qué les molesta tanto la idea?

Saludos desde Lima

3:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No somos "los argentinos" quienes estamos en contra de los TLC con USA. En Argentina, como en Perú y el resto de Latinoamérica hay sectores políticos y económicos que desean que nuestros países sigan, al pie de la letra, los dictados de Washington.

La mayoría de los que estamos en contra de un TLC con Estados Unidos descreemos del tipo de tratado que ellos proponen. Ya que el objetivo final de ese tratado es que vendamos materias primas, commodities, y compremos materias elaboradas con alto valor agregado.
Como ejemplo de ello cito las barreras sanitarias que USA y Europa ponen a nuestros productos. Ahora exigen sistemas de trazabilidad con tecnología de ellos. O sea, nos quieren comprar carne o frutas y vender computadoras, scanners, etc.

El "NO al TLC con USA" debería ser el impulsor de la estrategia de integración regional y desarrollo que incluya la ampliación y optimización de los recursos dedicados a educación e investigación científica.
Nuestra agenda debería ser, primero integración nacional (integrando a la sociedad a los sectores marginados), luego regional (con los países vecinos), integración sur-sur (con países similares y complementarios a los nuestros, como India, China, África, etc.) y recién por último los TLC con Europa y USA.

Ojalá la derecha latinoamericana comprenda que el progreso no llega SOLO de la mano de las inversiones extranjeras (sería interesante que vean los límites que las propias leyes americanas imponen a las inversiones extranjeras) sino del apoyo que den los estados a los productores locales para que mejoren la calidad y vendan al resto del mundo. De esa forma podríamos vender carnes y frutas utilizando un sistema de trazabilidad desarrollado por Ingenieros locales.


Saludos cordiales,


Rubén P.
Rosario - Argentina
rubpen@gmail.com

10:54 AM  
Anonymous Andres c said...

Ruben,

Las materias primas las venderíamos con o sin TLC porque esas materias están aquí y los demás paises las utilizan, por eso las compran. Los escaners y chips se los comprariamos a ellos con o sin TLC porque aquí no los producimos porque la inversión de nuestros gobiernos en investigación científica es casi cero y la de educación también. Es por eso que los obreros latinoamericanos no están capacitados para producir bienes de alta calidad y por eso ninguna empresa de ese tipo invierte aquí.

Muchas de las barreras sanitarias para productos agrícolas que existían han sido eliminadas en el TLC por lo que ahora podemos exportarlos.

"No al TLC con EEUU" sería la peor estrategía de integración latinoamericana. Tenemos que asociarnos de manera constructiva, resaltando nuestras complementariedades y lo que tenemos en común. Asociarnos para construir no para enfrentarnos a otros países. Ruben si te paece que USA y latinoamerica tienen puntos de conflicto que son importantes para nosotros, deberíamos tratar de acercanos a EEU y mejorar nuestras relaciones para solucionar los problemas, en vez de promover la ideología de la confrontación que sólo nos va a alejar más de USA. Tu crees que USA se preocuparía por solucionar problemas en pequeños y pobres países con los que no tiene relaciones comerciales y los cuales, para colmo, se amontonan sobre caballitos de batalla para armar alboroto que al final solo es bulla. Aceptalo, lo que digan en argentina, peru o mexico se queda en esos paises porque a nadie más le afecta. Llorando nunca vas a conseguir nada.

El TLC es simplemente un papel que dice que a partir de ahora ninguno de los dos países cobrará impuestos de importación al otro. Eso significa que ganando nosotros lo mismo, nuestros productos se venderán a menores precios en USA, por ser más baratos la gente comprará más y los peruanos ganaremos más. Es importante la integración sudamericana, pero producimos cosas parecidas y lo que compren en Chile o Colombia no es suficiente demanda como para aumentar las ganancias de las empresas en Perú. De hecho, entre Perú y Chile se ha firmado un TLC hace un mes, se hizo con la idea de que las empresas de ambos paises compren insumos en el otro a menores precios para luego exportar productos a menores precios y ser más competitivos.

Estoy de acuerdo contigo en que el estado tiene que invertir más en educación y ciencia, pero eso no se contradice de ninguna manera con un TLC. Además mientras más crece la economía, más dinero tiene el estado para invertir en educación.

No se que leyes tenga USA que limiten la inversión extranjera, hay muchas empresas europeas y japonesas que son dueñas de empresas que operan en USA. En todo caso, USA es un país rico que no necesita salir de la pobreza, ellos no necesita inversión para mejorar, nosotros si necesitamos que se invierta para crecer más. Lo que nosotros podemos invertir no es suficiente y por eso necesitamos que personas de otros países invertan aquí.

El TLC es el mejor apoyo que el estado puede dar a las empresas locales para que puedan vender al resto del mundo.

9:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

andres
Me parece que tienes una visión muy simplista y hasta diría inocente de lo que un TLC significa.

Empecemos a ver por ejemplo el país donde más hondo caló y donde más tiempo tiene en funcionamiento el TLC con USA: México.

México es un país donde PEMEX exporta petróleo e importa gran cantidad de sus derivados.

México es un país donde es necesario construir una muralla para evitar que su población siga migrando.

México es un país donde se sigue sembrando maíz, al estilo azteca. Personalmente pude ver en la carretera que va de Puebla a Veracruz (y no hablo de territorios más atrasados como Oaxaca o Chiapas) como siguen trabajando la tierra con bueyes.

México es un país donde, a pesar de tener universidades modernas tienen un muy bajo índice de patentamiento o descubrimientos, y no porque el mexicano no tenga capacidad.

Es claro que a los socios del norte les interesa muy poco que México se desarrolle. Por que habría de interesarles el desarrollo de Perú o Colombia?

Tener acuerdos de libre comercio PLANTEADOS ASÍ COMO ESTÁN solo trae beneficios a una minoría DE AMBAS PARTES DE LA FRONTERA. O sea, solo se benefician las grandes corporaciones y se perjudican los trabajadores de ambas partes tanto americanos como latinos.

Por ello, a la hora de plantear un TLC debería estudiarse seria y profundamente su impacto para poder prepararse adecuadamente. Te diría que debería ser un proyecto a 20 años, con avances graduales.

Si no se hace así, no habrá muralla que contenga los millones de personas que intentará buscar un futuro mejor, y por otro lado no habrá americano que acepte a los latinos.


Saludos cordiales,

Rubén P.
Rosario - Argentina
rubpen@gmail.com

12:18 AM  
Anonymous andres c said...

Ruben
Todo lo que has dicho de México es cierto, pero esos son problemas que ese país siempre tuvo, igual que Peru también siempre los ha tenido. Sin embargo, desde que hay TLC el PBI per cápita de México ha aumentado mucho, es actualmente el país más rico de latinoamerica, y todos los problemas que mencionaste (los cuales siempre existieron) han disminuido y posiblemente seguirán disminuyendo.

PEMEX, los inmigrantes ilegales y la falta de investigación científica son parte de la realidad de mexico desde comienzos del siglo XX.

Con o sin TLC nadie va a venir a salvarnos milagrosamente, nostros tenemos que salir adelande y el TLC es una erramienta que nos ayuda.

Ruben, tu preocupación es causa de una vision de muy corto plazo. Logicamente cuando entra en actividad el TLC algunas empresas demasiado incompetentes no son capaces de mantenerse en el mercado, pero ahi no solo pierden los obreros, también pierden los empresarios que eran dueños de esa empresa. Nadie quiere que las empresas cierren, pero por proteger un par no vas a limitar el desarrollo de todas las demás. Sería muy triste que alguien pierda su trabajo pero tienes que tener una visión de conjunto más amplia, fíjate en lo que será mejor para la mayoría. Además no te asustes, porque el TLC como tu mismo propones, se aplica en cuotas, no entra en vigencia mañana, hay plazos anuales que van permitiendo que cada vez se importe mayor cantidad de ciertos productos sensibles hasta depues de 5 o 6 años alcanzar la liberalización total, tiempo que permite que las empresas se acomoden. El TLC de perú lo negoció una delegación de excelentes economistas con mucha experiencia los cuales prepararon los plazos de liberalización de manera que se minimizaran las pérdidas y se maximizarana los beneficios. Incluso los pocos que pierdan su trabajo o su negocio podran recuperar o incluso ganar más de lo perdido algunos años después, porque cuando la economía crece todos somos más ricos, no solo unos pocos.

8:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I being living in the US since the last year hardly cross that stupid border from Guatemala to Mexico then the US border and to be honest people concerned about the LatinAmerican voters going democrat, is just like get a book of history we the undocumented population in the US are actually sustaining the economy of those countries. The US has to improve a lot in terms of racism and white supremacy b'cause even if I have heard some white friends of mine wiming about black people feeling offended even by a simple joke.
Aiming them as racists but lets go to facts. To me Racism is when the power is not balanced.
things that do not happen since the creation of the US even if when the three cultures has being apporting to this economy since the beginning an to protect it.
It the other hand something tht bother me is knowing how the way mexican robbers and trafficants rappe and kill inmigrants from other countries. Where damn hell human rights and security act in there.
somebody should stop that either way in Guatemala where people coming from other countries become the target of the same situation. LatinoAmerica needs hardly to improve such stupid behaviors and at the same time become more independent if we really want to be free at once.

and third point and final.
HOW DO YOU BECOME ACTIVE PART AND ENJOY OF THE BENEFITS OF THE TLC.
We signed such a stupid thing when many people like me dont even know HOW CAN WE BENEFIT FROM SUCH A THING. Even if I can't my family could start negociating and doing active part of the exportations in my country. So I would be so please if somebody send me a link or tell me how do this work or is it because this is reserved just for the ellite of my country wich would be shamefull.

11:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ok, let´s summarize the anglos helped the latinamerican people? maybe in some way but did more damage. First of all the pirates, with the blessing of the english government, robbed and destryed many parts of the spanish empire, Havana, campeche, cartagena, veracruz, san juan, etc. and part of that money was given to the English Crown. lands stolen, hey all the caribbean was spanish once. And you are saying that anglo companies like united fruit and others helped us? fuck you they just wanted our money and enslave our people, revolitions sparked because of that, cuba´s, nicaragua's, chile´s atc. And your people with the aid of our corrupt governors destroyed all those revolutions except cuba's. you treated the indigenous people a lot worse than we did, hardly mixed. And the blacks? your people have the ku klux klan and segregation. Our language is superior. And what about florida, texas, californi, new mexico, etc? you stole that too. Now you are afraid we´re comig back and yes the drug cartels are the new pirates because they help give money to the governments. and did you know that LA FLORID was spanish too? I don´t care if you built a succesful country ( by destroying others) but cubans and other latinos are, without knowing it, returning to their homeland and trying to get a bite of all the goodies your devilish people stole from NUESTRA AMERICA. And you still have gauntanamo base, puerto rico and Gibraltar. viva Martí, Bolivar, Juarez, pancho villa, sucre, sandino.

10:43 PM  

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