Subscriber Services
Weather

Monday, April 30, 2007

CONSIDER THE REAL COSTS OF AN IMMIGRATION CRACKDOWN - WHY IT WOULD AFFECT YOUR INTERESTS

OK, you anti-immigration isolationist flag-wavers out there, let's assume for a minute that we do things your way and deny 12 million undocumented workers a reasonable path to U.S. citizenship. Let me tell you why that would not only be unfair, but also would affect your own interests. Read here the main reasons why I think it would hurt America, and let us know what YOU think.

34 Comments:

Blogger Andres Oppenheimer said...

Here go some additional reasons why blocking all doors to citizenship would be a bad idea:
- There are 70,000 non-U.S. citizens serving in the U.S. armed forces, many of them in he front lines. Unless they are given a path to citizenship, and others are encouraged to follow their steps, the United States will have to re-instate the draft pretty soon.
- Without immigrants, the U.S. Social Security system would be more endangered than it already is. Over the next 75 years, new legal immigrants will provide a net benefit of $611 billion to the Social Security system, according to official Social Security Administration data. “Maintaining or increasing current levels of immigration significantly aids the Social Security system, while imposing an immigration moratorium or reducing legal migration would worsen” the situation, says the National Foundation for American Policy.
- It would be difficult not to interpret the crackdown as as an anti-Hispanic move. Like with the Irish and Poles in the past, many anti-immigration zealots are implying that today’s Hispanic immigration is not as good as previous waves of immigration. They were wrong in the past, and they are wrong now.
- The United States would become a less diverse, less multi-lingual, more parochial country, and thus less prepared to compete in the global economy. America already has too few people who speak foreign languages. It needs more bi-lingual citizens, not fewer.

11:10 AM  
Anonymous manuel Aragon said...

Andres
Thank you for spelling out some of the real world consequences of the possible mass deportation of illegal aliens from the US to Mexico and Central America. It would, as you point out, seriously undermine the political stability of Central America and Mexico. The example of the Mara Truchas made in Los Angeles and exported to El Salvador only to spread violence throughout the region now including the United States could be repeated many times over. Your reference to the outbreaks of violence by alienated French Muslim youth is very appropriate.

This issue of illegal immigrants mainly from Mexico and now also Central America has been with us since the mid 1960s when I was very involved in the politics and government of Los Angeles. The presence of illegal aliens in Southern California was a well known fact. There were documentaries done about the role of the "coyotes" in illegally trafficking humans into the US. What the Mexican-American community in Los Angeles feared most at the time was a repetition of the 1930s when immigration and police officers randomly stopped Hispanic looking people on the streets of Los Angeles including many US citizens who were then deported if they failed to show proof of their legal status on the spot. These events have been well documented.

In testimony to Senator Cranston in the late 1960s I presented the consensus opinion of all the politically active Hispanic organizations in Los Angeles in my testimony which was:
1. For the Congress to legalize the status of those already in the US illegally unless they were guilty of a crime.
2. Concurrently to negotiate an agreement with the Government of Mexico requiring it to crack down on the human traffickers operating in Mexico.

The US approved an amnesty program in the 1980s but did not require Mexico, the main gateway into the US, to do anything to stop the organized trafficking in humans. So the flow continued with the full knowledge of the US and Mexico. The current Mexican government statements on this issue object to the US building walls to keep out illegal immigrants and say as well that as long as there unequal economic opportunities between the US and Mexico illegal immigration to the US is inevitable. One has have yet to hear anything serious from Mexico about cracking down on organized human smuggling.

The US must act responsibly toward the people who are already here rather than look upon them as a disposable inconvenience. They are not the criminals. Those who bring them here for a price, those who provide them with false documents and those who knowingly employ them are the ones we should be penalizing.

The governments in Central America and Mexico must also act responsibly to halt the terrible trafficking in humans for commercial purposes. For any new solution to succeed it has to have the cooperation and active support of the Governments of Central America and Mexico in shutting down the human smuggling that enables the illegal migration of large numbers of people for a price. Maybe what is needed is a regional migration agreement which establishes standards and practices for eliminating the unacceptable practice of trafficking in humans

respectfully

Manuel Aragon
President Teqflor, Inc.

12:35 PM  
Blogger Truth Matters said...

Andres,

The real costs of illegal immigration:

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NTBlOTVlNDFkNTYwOTg4YWYxMThkZmE2MWZhMmVjMWM=

http://www.city-journal.org/html/16_3_immigrants_economy.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_police_officer_shooting_(2005)

Any Questions???

5:41 PM  
Anonymous Ralph Martins said...

Counterpoint Number One: Most immigrants that I know and read about come to this country for financial freedom--sometimes, taking on two jobs. I very seriously doubt that they would have any time to protest, let alone trying to learn english.

Counterpoint Number Two: They key factor with all these immigration policies are the employers who hire these people. The burden is on them. I do not favor a fence in between Mexico and the United States, I do not favor closing our border, but I do favor enforcing the laws. And primarily, enforcement has to be made on the employers to hire these people. If employers do not include immigrants on this payroll, as they should, then they are breaking the law. I'm not interested in punishing the workers...all I'm interested in is making sure that the employers cross their T's and dot their I's. I'm sure they are making money hands over fist on hiring illegals because they probably dont have to pay taxes, the same token, they are the ones that are insulting this countries loss, as well as enslaving the illegals.

Counterpoint Number Three: I am willing to take a chance, and accept the fact, and pay the risk of not employing illegals if it creates quality of life for the rest of us. It is insulting to me, knowing what my family had to do to stay in this country, and the fees that they had to pay, and the risks that they had to make, just to go ahead and, for a lack of vision, offer amnesty for all.

Finally, I do not respond to threats of massive unrest, and massive economic unrest in other countries. Every country has to pull up their boots by their own straps, because it's the survival of the fittest. If, in your opinion, we are going to offer amnesty because of unrest throughout the world, politically and economically, I am willing to take that chance.

5:48 PM  
Blogger Truth Matters said...

"There are 70,000 non-U.S. citizens serving in the U.S. armed forces, many of them in he front lines. Unless they are given a path to citizenship, and others are encouraged to follow their steps, the United States will have to re-instate the draft pretty soon."

Andres, are these 70,000 legal residents or illegal immigrants? No one has a problem with giving people who have legal residence a path to citizenship (in fact they already have one). What we object to is giving illegal immigrants that have broken numerous laws (tax, criminal, civil) the same status as law abiding LEGAL immigrants. Second, I'd like to see your source which declares that the US will have to reinstate the draft.

"Over the next 75 years, new legal immigrants will provide a net benefit of $611 billion to the Social Security system, according to official Social Security Administration data."

Andres, your argument is misleading. While it is true that adding a new influx of workers paying SS taxes would greatly increase revenues available to the current generation of retirees, those new workers will start collecting their revenues in 20-50 years and the system will be even worse off than it is today. Do you not see this??? Who's going to be paying all the money going out when these new "immigrants" start retiring???

Third, "while imposing an immigration moratorium or reducing legal migration would worsen” "

Possibly true (although I don't believe it is), but no one is advocating a moratorium on immigration or reducing legal migration are they?? At least, not that I know of. What we (and the majority of Americans) want is a moratorium on ILLEGAL immigration. Got it????????????

"It would be difficult not to interpret the crackdown as as an anti-Hispanic move."

Andres, I mean you made it through your newspaper column without calling people who are anti-illegal immigration "bigots" or "racists" (which frankly I was shocked at, since every other column you have written features the word bigot or racist), but you couldn't make it through your follow up post without insinuating it. How about interpreting it as a crackdown on poorly educated people who don't speak English (well at least), don't follow our laws (both in terms of entering the country AND in terms of paying taxes), AND send most of the money they make back to their home countries and thus, do not contribute to growing America's GDP. Does that work for you?????????

America already has too few people who speak foreign languages. It needs more bi-lingual citizens, not fewer.

I agree that America needs more people who speak multiple languages. However, the solution is not to let in millions of poorly educated illegal immigrants that don't speak English properly. These people aren't bilingual. That's the whole problem with your argument right there. And why do you want the US to be more multi-lingual??? I agree that Americans should learn to speak other languages, but when it comes down to it, English is our official language, always has been and always should be (unless you'd like to bring this up for debate), so I don't see the need for people that don't speak English to assimilate here (unless they are ready willing and able to learn--which most of them aren't).

Well, that pretty much debunks all of your "additional reasons". I will work on my main post destroying your original column later tonight.

Seriously though, can we set up a debate or something, because I would love to show you how wrong and completely illogical you are on the issue of illegal immigration.

truthmattersfa@yahoo.com

5:59 PM  
Blogger carlos.erban said...

carlos.erban said...
Hello Andres,

I thought you would find interesting my letters to and response from my Congresswoman Wasserman. I think you need to point out in your articles that the current proposal that forces "undocumented" to return to their countries for 3-6 months is at best absurd and ill-intentioned since it is designed to fail. By the way, I think that there will be no reform at all since the window of opportunity is closing quickly as we go into an election year.

Best Regards,

Carlos


-------------

Dear Congresswoman Wasserman,

Thank you for replying to my letter.

I am a disappointed with your response about undocumented workers (below in italics) because you do not address any of the points that I made in my original letter, and your position is the same as President Bush's with the exception that it lacks any specifics.


I support a comprehensive solution, including a guest worker program, that both relieves pressure on our borders and also resolves the status of the estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants living in our country.

For that reason, we must not only gain control of our borders, but we must also provide millions of illegal immigrants already living here an incentive to come out of the shadows and to be counted and identified. I look forward to working with my colleagues in the House of Representatives to enact comprehensive immigration reforms.

I hope that we can all agree that if you support a guest worker visa for 2 years that costs $2500 and to renew requires to leave the country for 6 months, nobody will "come out of the shadows". Most undocumented workers are from lower socio-economic classes. Do you think that anyone can afford to leave with their whole family for 6 months with no income, maintain two places of living, and risk the chance of not being able to come back? It is completely absurd and ill-intentioned.

This year you still have an unique opportunity with a Democratic Congress and a President willing to provide legal status to illegals, to make real lasting reform. Unfortunately, with 9 months left, prior to the election season, I predict that nothing will get done and there will be no difference between the Republican and the Democratic Congress -- despite all the promises made to Hispanics by the latter.

I hope you read this e-mail and provide leadership action in this matter. It is ironic that Republican Congress people in South Florida such as Messrs. Diaz-Baralt and Mrs. Ros-Letinen are the ones providing some leadership instead of the Democrats.

Best Regards,

Carlos Erban



Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:17:38 -0400
April 10, 2007

Dear Mr. Erban,

Thank you for contacting me regarding immigration reform. I appreciate hearing from you on this important matter.



The United States is a nation founded by immigrants. Accepting other cultures into our society helps create the beautiful "melting pot" that has become the very essence of our nation. I am a strong supporter of legal immigration.



Our current immigration system is failing, and I believe our country must mend its broken borders. Additionally, the very real threat of terrorists crossing our borders means we must develop a policy that puts the security of the American people first. For that reason, I support a comprehensive solution, including a guest worker program, that both relieves pressure on our borders and also resolves the status of the estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants living in our country.



Any proposal to remedy our current immigration system must be comprehensive and not focus on "enforcement only" mechanisms. Rather than throwing billions of dollars away on a fence that would not solve the problem, I instead support alternative proposals that would increase funding for detention facilities, border patrol agents, and port-of-entry inspectors. I believe we should end the Bush Administration's "catch-and-release" program by providing our border patrol agents with more resources to help hold and detain illegal immigrants. Until Congress gets serious about authorizing the technology, personnel, and equipment needed to monitor and secure every mile of the border, a partial fence will not begin to solve the problem.



Additionally, I do not believe that state and local law enforcement resources should be used to fund a federal responsibility. Congress should not "pass the buck" to already overstretched police departments. If it did, new immigration enforcement responsibilities would distract local officers from their primary responsibilities of solving violent crimes and ensuring the safety of their communities. Our broken borders are a federal problem. We need a federal solution.



Please know that, as your Representative, I am committed to passing meaningful immigration reform that fixes our broken borders and protects America's citizens and legal immigrants. For the security of our nation, it is imperative that we know exactly who is in our country. For that reason, we must not only gain control of our borders, but we must also provide millions of illegal immigrants already living here an incentive to come out of the shadows and to be counted and identified. I look forward to working with my colleagues in the House of Representatives to enact comprehensive immigration reforms.



Please know I will keep your concerns in mind and continue to keep you updated on this and other pressing issues of the 110th Congress. Thank you for contacting my office, and please do not hesitate to do so again regarding this or any other matter. I also invite you to visit my Web site at www.house.gov/schultz for additional information and legislative issue updates.



Sincerely,






Debbie Wasserman Schultz

Member of Congress





DWS\sr







------------------------------------------


I was born in Venezuela, and recently became a U.S. Citizen, one of the proudest and most emotional moments in my life. I am a proud American. I am registered as an Independent, and the number 1 issue for me is Immigration Reform. My view is that most undocumented aliens are productive people to the U.S. society and economy -- a view shared by most Nobel Prized Economists in the U.S. I was fortunate to graduate from Harvard Business School, and I was heavily recruited. Most people with my background automatically get a working visa and soon after a path to residency and citizenship. Most companies even pay the very high immigration attorney’s fees, which in my case was about $20,000. However, poor blue collard workers are not afforded the same opportunity, and cannot afford top attoneys. You could argue that blue collar labor, especially performed by undocumented immigrants, is precisely the work that most Americans don’t want to perform. They should be given the same opportunity, a working visa, and as long they demonstrate they are working, paying taxes, and with no criminal record qualify for Green Card and eventually for Citizenship. I also hope that join Congress people Baralt, Ross-Letinen in providing DED status to my fellow Venezuelans.



Regards,



Carlos Erban

8:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thørsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

åndêrš, what a bunch of nonsense. I will rebut every single one of your points. But first, let me say Spaniards went out of their way to hunt down and savagely kill any "illegals" found living in what they saw as "their territory", even though those "illegals" were hundreds of miles away from any Spanish town, in their own independent societies:

http://www.folger.edu/institute/jamestown/c_parr.htm
When the English settled at Jamestown, they were constantly on the lookout for a Spanish attack against their foothold in the New World. They knew how Spain had responded to previous challenges to its claims made under the Papal Donation of 1493, including Pedro Menéndez's massacre of Frenchmen in La Florida in 1565.

from "Spanish Texas", by Gerald Ashford, copyright 1971.
page 174
Nolan was not the first American to enter Texas, but he was by far the most important up to his time. Most of the handful of others who dared cross the border in the late 18th Century were either driven back or carried away to the mines of interior Mexico. To cross the Spanish iron curtain of that day, without a special license from the King of Spain, was in fact a capital offense.

9:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thørsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

Ok, åndêrš, about your first point, under my plan, there would be no Hispanick illegals living in the USA, so there would be no alienated class living here. What I would do would be to bar any Hispanick illegal from working in the USA and from receiving any type of governemnt assistance. Kids of illegals would have their citizenship revoked. Therefore, any Hispanick illegals would have to leave the USA to survive.
Besides, even the "legal" Hispanicks living in the USA feel alienated and hate. They feel humiliated to have to live in the country of their hated historic rivals to be able to live decent lives.

9:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thørsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

åndêrš, about your second point, we don't want Hispanick immigrants here. We want immigrants who look up to the USA and who have USA pride and who are not ashamed to speak English. We can easily get such good immigrants from India, Southeast Asia, Samoa, Korea, the Philippines, Nepal.......
I don't want immigrants who are taught to hate the USA and the "Anglos" from an early age (Hispanicks and Arabs).

9:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thørsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

Ok, åndêrš, regarding point 3, there would be no need for any deportation. If we cut off all means of support for Hispanick illegals (but allow Asian and European illegals to stay), they would leave on their own in order to survive.

9:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thørsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

Ok, åndêrš, about point #4, there are tens of millions of USA loving Asians, Mahatma Gandhi Indians, Bulgarians, Romanians, Koreans, etc, desperate to come to the USA to do the work now done by illegal Hispanicks. There would be no shortage of cheap labor. We wouldn't even have to pay to bring those people in. They would gladly come up with the airfare money themselves to come here.

9:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thørsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

OK, åndêrš, now I will rebut you final point. The USA/"Anglos" are not responsible for Latin America. We did not cause the problems there. We should not and cannot be your babysitters.
I have told you numerous times, that so long as the Latin American populace is in love with punks like Hector "macho" Camacho, as they are, and they have no place in their society for a significant nerds/scientist class like Bill Gates, the anarchy, chaos, crime, poverty and corruption will never ever end. I don't think there is any will in macho Latin America to develop a nerd/scientist class, much less to accept that class in their society.

9:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thørsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

Hey anonymous poster #1, that is total nonsense what you wrote. Many Americans, including myself, are all for immigration. The USA does not have a high enough natice born population to support the country. I am all for immigration, just not Hispanick immigration. We CANNOT bring in a people who see the USA/"Anglos" as the hated historic rivals of their beloved Spaniards, a people who feel hhumiliated that their hatred historic rivals have whipped them in every conceivable way and who have a socre to settle. That would be suicide for any country. There are tens of millios of east Europeans, Mahatma Gandhi Indians, Southeast Asians, Chinese and Filipinos who desperately want into the USA. That's who the USA needs to allow in, not Hispanicks. The author of the hugely best-selling book "The World is Flat", says the same thing:

from the book "The World is Flat", by Thomas L. Friedman, copyright 2005
page 292
While we need to redouble our efforts to build the muscles of each individual American, we have to continue to import muscles from abroad as well. Most of the Indian, Chinese, Russian, Japanese, Korean, Iranian, Arab, and Israeli engineers, physicists, and scientists who come to work or study in the United States make great citizens. They are family oriented, educated, and hardworking, and most would jump at the chance to become an American. They are exactly the type of people this country needs, and we cannot let the FBI, CIA, and Homeland Security, in their zeal to keep out the next Mohammed Atta, also keep out the next Sergey Brin, one of the cofounders of Google, who was born in Russia

10:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey "Truth Matters", here are some more facts about the true cost of Hispanick immigration, from Pat Buchanan's new best-selling book:

from the book "State of Emergency", by Patrick J. Buchanan, copyright 2006

page 44
* Mexicans, Central Americans, and Caribbean peoples use welfare at more than twice the rate of native-born Americans.
* Koreans, Filipinos, Japanese, Canadians, Poles, Brits, Germans, Indians, and Italians use welfare at lower rates than native-born Americans.
* More than 50 percent of all immigrants from Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras never finished high school.
* Only 5 percent or less of immigrants from South Korea, Canada, Russia, Britain, Germany, Iran, and Japan never finished high school.

* Only 2 percent of Italian immigrants are on Medicaid and less than 5 percent of Italians qualify for the earned income tax credit.
* But 50 percent of the immigrants from the Dominican Republic use Medicaid and 50 percent of the immigrants from Mexico qualify for the EITC.

10:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thørsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

Hey, åndêrš, let me give you a hint. To be accepted here in the USA, why don't you Latin Americans show you really want to be American instead of trying to force amnesties on us?
I will give you a list of several things you can do.
hint #1: do you see any other immigrant groups besdies Hispanicks wave foreign flags all over the USA and won't be caught dead waving a USA flag?
hint #2: do you see any other immigrant groups besides Hispanics who refuse to give their kids American names?
hint #3: do you see any other immigrant groups besdies Hispanics that refuse to accept English as the language of the USA and who try to force their language on the USA?
hint #4: do you see any other immigrant groups besdies Hispanics who denigrate the many achievements of the USA/"Anglos"?
hint #5: do you see any other immigrant groups besides Hispanics who boo USA
international sports teams?
hint #6: do you see any other immigrant groups besdies Hispanics who refuse to acknowledge Anglos created the USA and who try to rewrite USA History to make it appear as if they created the USA?

10:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. Oppenheimer should stay in Argentina that is nothing more than bankrupted and just shut up, because He has no clue what he is talking about, he's dishonest and an open border advocate. First of all, they aren't "undocumented workers" or "migrants", they are Illegal immigrants and they have no right to stay here just to work. They can do that in their own country, so not, than it's not my problem that they are coming from a third world nation that doesn't care about them at all. He shouldn't call them "Undocument workers" because most of them are with stolen id/social security cards or with a passport from their nation with an expired visa. It's be proven by many Liberal and Conservative economic professors that they are a burden on the society. They pull more money out of the system than bringing money in. All what the government has to do is secure the border, build the wall, punish employers who hire them, shut down the ITIN system. By time, little by little, if you crack down on the employers illegal immigrants will go home if they can't work. If they can't work, they can't eat and they are pushed of going back home, where they belong. Just enforce the laws that already exist.

10:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's a lie that the American Economy will collapse if they deport all illegal immigrants. This nation receive more LEGAL immigrants than other nations combined in the world. Mr. Oppenheimer is nothing more than a sad person who tries to protect his latino friends, what he actually doesn't care about at all. He should be ashamed of himself that Latin America cannot take care of it's own people.

10:35 PM  
Blogger Norman B. Estabrook said...

Dear Mr. Oppenheimer,

I just read your article entitled, "The Price of Deporting Immigrants" and I find it hard to know just where to start before I place it under my birdcage. However, I will try to take this point by point.

1. Calling those of us who believe our laws should not be ignored "anti-immigration, isolationist, flag wavers" is probably not the best starting point for a rational discussion on the matter of what to do with 12 million illegal aliens in our midst.

2. You seem to be saying that we should cower in the face of potential riots which would surely take place if those already here illegally were denied the rewards from such illegal behavior. My, my, I am positively terrified! Maybe we should also retreat to our homes in fear of all criminals who wish to take break laws and be rewarded for it?

3. "Closing the doors to citizenship" is an interesting semantic phrase you spool up, here. Perhaps a more sensible phrasing might be to "deny further benefits to scofflaws"? The spectre of nazi-like thugs breaking into the homes of innocent families to send them off to concentration-like camps seems to be, like others who fail to grasp the negative impact of this problem, the fallback hysteria when logic fails.

4. A strict standard for proof of legal residence within this country as a precursor to employment (OK, a national tamper-proof ID card), coupled with firm penalties for employers who fail to abide will go a long way towards discouraging people from remaining here in an illegal capacity.

5. Deporting "hard working people" (I would call them hardworking illegal aliens) is not only morally correct, but a legal and practical requirement. Just one case in point: How would you feel if you were waiting for years in your own country, doing everything by the book in order to become a US citizen the right way and you see people who jumped the border, set up shop, are earning a good living and are now getting a wrist slap (aka "earned path to citizenship"), along with the rewards of being American?

6. I am aghast at the ignorant handwringing associated with the plight of children born to illegal aliens. Due to a fluke in the 14th Amendment which was aimed at establishing legal citizenship for former slaves, not the children of illegal aliens, anyone born on US soil is immediately a citizen (we are one of the very few in the world with this practice). First, if there is a plight, it is not the fault of the US government, but that of irresponsible parents who chose to subject their children to it. Second, I don't see why there is a problem if the parents are deported. Certainly, no one wants to see children separated from their parents, so the children should automatically return to the native country with their parent(s). That does not revoke their citizenship and, should they later desire, they can always return.

7. Let me see, if it costs $206 Billion (your stated number) to establish a bit of order in an otherwise disorderly situation, I consider that the price we must pay for our government failing to act responsibly in the first place. Are you suggesting, because it's costly, that we should just ignore the issue? I believe this number equates to about 41 days of the Iraq war. Further, your cost estimate does not take into account the cost we pay for having such a large illegal alien population, with welfare, medical, etc, about which there is substantial disagreement.

8. I would not disagree that a sudden loss of illegal alien labor would wreak havoc with our economy, but why is that? It's because we have allowed it to go on for so long, unabated, and we have developed a false economy that takes advantage of cheap labor. However, to state that such havoc would be interminable is intellectually dishonest. This country would adjust and go on just fine, thank you very much. It might even have the ultimate benefit of raising the wages and purchasing power of our legally established citizenry. For those jobs "that no American wants to do", I have no problems with a very strictly controlled "guest worker" program. Your reference to our farm propgram going overseas frightens me not one wit more than that of exporting any of our industries. Read Thomas Friedman's "The Earth is Flat" for reference. I would guess we might even spur accelerated innovation in automated harvesting machinery.

9. Justifying leaving the 12 million illegal aliens in this country because it would cause a hardship in South America if they couldn't continue sending money home is a model for convoluted thinking. Maybe we should better ask why Mexico, for example, after 140 years as an established nation with abundant natural resources and a willing labor pool, cannot provide for its citizens and must deport them to America in any way possible to establish a revenue stream that is second only to that of PEMEX?

10. Finally, let's get rid of this handwringing nonsense about "hardworking, law-abiding, tax-paying immigrants" as a justification for tolerating law breaking on a grand scale. Billions of "hardworking" people all over the world would dearly love to come to this country and raise their standard of living. What is special about those from the south? Can we absorb 4 of the 6 billion people on the face of the earth? Law-abiding? Yes, for the most part, but tell that to the parents of the girl recently murdered in Virginia or the other myriad of gang and drug-related crime among that population. Tax paying? Says who? How do you pay your share of income tax without a Social Security card? No one has a choice with respect to such things as sales tax, so where is the virtue in that?

11. One other thing that is seldom discussed is the impact of vast immigration on the resources of this country. In 1900, our population was around 100 million. In 1962 it was 200 million. In 2005, it was 300 million. I don't believe the number of beaches, roadways, cubic miles of air, parks and forests have grown in proportion and the geometric progression is largely fed by immigration. In 1965 our immigration numbers were around 160,000. What is being tossed about, now, is 1 million! Contrary to the apologists for open borders, I am not pulling up the drawbridge, but trying to suggest a rational, objective approach to quality of life, rather than have it descend to the lowest common denominator.

In summary, Mr. Oppenheimer, I believe you are terribly off-base in your perspectives. I have no expectation that you will alter your beliefs, but I do want you to understand clearly that neither I nor a goodly number of others share them and I truly hope that my views rather than yours will ultimately prevail. In closing, I will quote you a recent quip, "Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist'".

Sincerely,

Norman B. Estabrook
Solan Beach, California

4:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thørsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

Hey Norman Estabrooks, I too am for a guest worker program. But such workers MUST come from USA friendly countries like India, Southeast Asia and the Philippines.....
And I could care less if a person in the USA is "illegal". There are around 50,000 Irish "illegals" here. Big deal.
The thing about Hispanicks that gets me is their blatant direspect of the USA/"Anglos". Like how they refuse to speak English and how they use every opportunity to try and force their language and culture on us and how they try to force us to give full Spanish names to our cities and streets to try and plagiarize the good work of the Anglos, but under the ruse of "wanting to prreserve the heritage of the area".
Uh, the heritage of the USA is either native Indian or Anglo, not Spanish. The Spanish "presence" in what is now the USA was negligible and inconsequential to the develoment of the USA into a world power, similar to British settlements along the Spanish speaking Central American coast.
But Hispanicks play those settlements up, acting as if that's where the USA got its start.

10:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let me tell you all anti-immigrants something that you may not have learned in school or from your parents because it may be a little shameful. It is time for an illegal to speak up. If you have any questions bring them on. I will be more than happy to answer them. Send them please to abraham_ar@hotmail.com but first read what I have to say.

First of all, I must mention that it is really not difficult at all to figure out your inherent compounded ignorance. But of course we rather not name our kids with Anglo names, namely because we are not Anglos (we have much nicer and meaningful names in Navajo, Nahuatl, Maya, Tarahumara, Cumeyaay, etc. to choose from, or any other native language) and even if we wanted to, why would we do that if we are not well received (allowed to assimilate or welcomed in your stupid materialist society) because we are poor (therefore inferior) and because of our brown skin and black hair that distinguishes us the real people of the Americas even before it was named that. You have caused the mess (according to you) we are in. You have never respected us or accepted us as we are.

I personally have a theory of why the Anglos fear us. First, because we are hard working people and we do not cry like some others when it comes to getting the hard work done. Second, we are proud of who we are (family and community values, folk and culinary culture, ancestral tradition, respect for the elders and nature) and we do not have to change it for something worthless. Quite the opposite, you could learn a thing or two by simply being more open minded, bunch of arrogant people… why don’t you change?
I have made the sacrifice to leave most of my family behind and learn your language, adapt to your society and contempt myself with any kind of job where the boss is not too strict with documentation, even though I have the capability to take on possitioins of higher responsibility, but simply do not have the papers…

Yes, we can learn the language and try to assimilate, but no matter what, there will always be racist people like the majority of you who are posting anti-immigrant comments on this and every other possible site. Where do you come from? Are you not descendants of an immigrant? Not all immigrants came here legally, but were by today’s standards quite unwelcomed and all eligible for immediate deportation.

Once again, I am not impressed by your clear ignorance because you certainly do not exhibit the warmth of human characteristic of the natives of this land. My cousins the Cherokees, the Navajos and the Apaches would not express themselves in the fashion you do as if you were the legitimate owner of this territories. My ancestors (yes I am an illegal alien descendant of the people you Europeans alienated) were certainly welcoming of your treasonous antecessors, which to a normal human being it only shows superiority (of character and human nature).

My personal theory is that ever since you, the intolerant, supremacists (AKA: Crusaders, Barbarians, Enslavers, Rapists, Exploiters, Imperialists, Nazi, World Terrorists, Racists, Green House Gas Emitters, World Polluters, Consumerists, Ethnocentrics, and Egocentrics) alienated my ancestors indigenous people of this land, have been on the defensive because of your inherent insecurity (not talking about safety here) about the legitimacy of how the property that did not belong to you, the REAL INVADERS become yours. Why don't you learn your own history (you will see why we do not want to be like you) and find that we Mexicans, Aztecas, Salvadorans, Guatemalans, Mayas, Incas, and other Native Americans, including others adjectives (since you can not call them nationalities) such as Latinos, Hispanics, Illegal Aliens, Greasers, Beaners, Wetbacks, Spiks, etc. have the roots you do not have in this land. You can call us whatever you want, but reality is that the brown skin heredity of my native blood is the true proof and testimony of the legitimate ownership of this land, I am the Brown Man of the New World.

Do you not see your own ignorance? You do not even have a positive word to describe another human being no wonder you go to wars in the name of Christianity... you are so full of it!

By the way, Is it the way to treat the owner of the house who gave you hospice? It was a good thing your ancestors claimed to have high moral (religious) standards when they descended from the Mayflower. When you learn your true history you will find that… Yes, you are the visitors and we hope your stay will not be for long and if it must be then, you’d better start learning to behave and to respect those that feed you as well. Just like the non-native species (whether plants or animals) you have been impacting our environment with your prolonged invasive and obstructive stay.

As stated on one of your comments, you can populate the land of the Buffalo, the Bear, the Jaguar, the Guajolote (Wild Turkey in case you did not know) and of my uncle Geronimo, my great-great-great-grandpa Cuauhtemoc, mi tios Pancho Villa and Zapata and my hero Che Guevara with whatever kind of immigrants you want (for cheap labor… of course exploiters!!!) but the reality is that no immigrant will fully assimilate to your inherent supremacist ignorance and will eventually turn against your despective unsustainable system (where humans are worth only for the amount of material possession they have, which ultimately ends up in the garbage) by not wanting to be like you. In case you did not know there are better ways to measure peoples worth, for example by their humane contributions to society and the world, as opposed to their ignorant racist rhetoric and unfunded nationalistic ego.

In case your evolutionary theory did not sink in (even if you were paying attention in class) the world is composed of only one race, humanity, and we all have feelings and necessities that make us leave our countries to seek a better life. In case you did not know that was the reason the first humans emigrated from Africa (whether your white skin, red neck supremacist ego likes it or not… Yes you came out of Africa too).

We “recent” immigrants, just like prior real immigrants are hard working people and when accepted will assimilate. By the way, I will give you one right, just like in every single ethnicity there are good and bad people. Why then don't you advocate for the massive deportation of all criminal whites to go back to Europe, including their descendants unworthy of citizenship? By using your language, send them all to wherever they came from. You too, racist, supremacists would have to go back to where you came from. Why did you have to come to our land to divide borders? Do not blame it on the Spaniards and Portuguese, you all colonizers or imperialists are all the same crap and as such like to keep the humble oppressed.

It seems as though you've never suffered or have had any necessity, you can make your homophobic system work anywhere, so why didn't you? Why did you have to come and drive my Native American ancestors to near extinction? I am talking about you all racists, colonizers, imperialists, killers, insensitive people. Where is your part of humane instinct? Do you not realize that the world goes round and round. The next mass migration may be of Anglos to Latin America or to the Arab (and we are starting to see that with all the retirees)countries in the next few hundred years, you never know. Things change and you never know on what side you may find yourself.

I invite you to learn, open up your mind and become more sensitive about the true immigrant. You sure have had some bad experiences or may just be prejudiced, there is definitely a lot of positive, perhaps more that you can ever imagine in the values of those who you see as inferior. Too bad we are not commodities and you are going to have to put up with that. Take some History, Economics of Trade and Macroeconomic classes would you. Never mind about the general Ed, it would be too much work for you, I realize.

As an illegal immigrant, I risk my life to get here and only come to work and to seek a better life for my family. I do not see anything wrong with that. If you do, it is your problem, go to school, get prepared, get off your lazy behind and use your abilities to not be outcompeted by us illegals, like me. I did my fair share of hard work already, from washing dishes, picking up crops, working up to 5 jobs and going to school all at the same time. I have managed to go to school and without any help from Uncle Sam will be graduating this year and you’d better watch out because I will (with merits) be taking your precious white collar job.

By the way you do not like us educated because we take “your jobs” and you criticize us because we are not educated enough… Do me a favor, bunch of fart heads, grow up!
Yes, I have the spirit of an immigrant, I want to advance and develop my full potential. Or is that already reserved for Anglos only? It seems that you are afraid that we do not learn, but also you are afraid that we do learn. Make up your mind, bunch of insecure people. Why don't you stop crying like babies and go to school, travel, learn about other cultures, assimilate to the real world, bunch of ignorant. How do you expect the migrants not to displace you?

Get to work now before I become your foreman and make you work like a slave. And you’d better show up sober and in a good mood to work bunch of lazy, crack and pot heads who just want the easy paycheck... it is time to get productive. I do not want to see any more of this waste of time posting your obvious ignorance, you would do yourselves a favor.

I have said it… and I could have said it better in Spanish, but I am afraid you would not have understood. By the way for your homework, go figure out what is celebrated on 5 de Mayo and do not drink any beer or eat any chips, guacamole and salsa or any other type of Mexican food until you can answer me that question correctly without google-ing it. You are allowed to ask up to a 100 of your high IQ gringo friends, though.

While we are on the celebrations, also why don’t you “Americans” celebrate May 1rst, like the rest of the hard working people in the world do? Are you afraid of hard work or what? Is your labor day a watch-the-minorities-do-the-hard-work kind of labor day that you have to celebrate it on a different date?

Continuing on the tribias, can anyone tell me why the whites can not clean? Yet, they call all the minorities dirty. This guys sure bite the hand that feeds them, don't they? I do not know how they are going to manage without us. They hate us yet they love Mexico, they are buying up all the pristine real estate in Mexico… In fact I have heard their frustration on how they wish the whole of Baja California had been stolen along with the southwestern states at the time of Manifest Destiny. Did the world know the only reason the whites in Congress did not suck up all of Mexico at that time? The reason being… it was full of Mexicans.

Can anybody in the world believe that? Let the whole world know the kind of arrogant jerks we have to put up with on top of all the daily hard work under the sun. On top of that they think we are here for their pleasure. Fuck them!

These suckers wish they were the only ones that existed in this planet. They may want to keep some of us alive for their servants though. Should the survivers consider themselves lucky? The answer is yes, by gringo standards.

5:56 AM  
Blogger rramos said...

Mr. Oppenheimer,

Your April 29th article “Consider the real costs of immigration crackdown,” already has a fictional counterpart.

My novel released in March of this year, America Libre, contemplates the nightmare scenario of a Hispanic insurrection on U.S. soil fueled by the backlash and isolationism you describe. The story follows the struggles of an unemployed ex-GI of Mexican descent who is lured into an emerging insurrection by separatist radicals.

You can find more about America Libre on my website: www.RaulRamos.com

Raul Ramos y Sanchez

8:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thørsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

Hey Abraham, I guess you didn't read any of my posts where I said I am all for immigration, that I could care less if a person is "illegal" and that I implore the USA to bring in BROWN skinned Mahatma Gandhi Indians and Filipinos.
The reason is that those people grow up loving and respecting the USA and they desperately want to be part of the USA. You Hispanicks grow up resenting the USA, seeing the USA as an extension of the UK, the hated historic rivals of your beloived Spaniards. and you people feel tremendoulsy humiliated that the "Anglos" have whipped you people in every conceivable way, and so you hate. I do not want such a people in the USA.
As far as "stealing" California, the Spaniards never even wanted that land as there was no gold to steal, that why they had to send convicts and orpahns there. And their settlmenets in the Soouthwest were dying out, they weren;t growing. And it was Spanairds who stole all of Latin America from the Indians, under the Papal decree of 1493. Enslaving the Indians in their native lands, working them to death to steal their own gold.
As far as "Anglo" names, did you know Arhenitna has a law requiring kids born there be goven Spaniahs names? So I guess it is OK for you people to go around the world and forcing natives in their ancestral lands to take full Spanish names, like what was done to the Filipinos and native Americans? That is OK, and it's OK to make laws that require kids be given Spanish names. You have no problem with that? But when you same people force your way into the society created by the Anglos, then you people don't follow your own rules.

9:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thørsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

Rramos, I agree with you. I see Hispanics rising up in a nationwide insurrection sometime in the next 20 years. I don't see any other alternative. It's pent up hatred of Hispanicks being poor and feeling neglected in the world coming to a breaking point. Hispanics look around the world and see the world listening and dancing to American music, they see the world playing Anglo sports, they see the world wanting to learn English and using English alongside their own native language. They seee the world idolize the great Anglos for all they have done to make the world a better place. And macho Hispanick pride will not accept that, that the world follows the lead of their hated historic rivals. Macho Hispanic pride dictates that the world follow the lead of the great Hispanic people. And Hispanicks have put their foot down, as they have done, and have said "no more", that the "Anglos" will never again outdo proud Hispanicks on the world stage, that the Hispanick language and culture will be respected in the world. That's what they are doing now by calling customer services 24/7 to demand Spanish be made equal to English, by demanding politicians force more of the Spanish language into our school curriculum. By demanding the USA give full Spanish names to our cities and streets. By Hispanic legislators introducing their own legislation to create USA national holidays that honor Hispanics.
All to make it appear as if Hispanicks created the USA.
I'm telling you Sr Ramos, if it is that important that Hispanics have their own Spanish speaking country they can be proud of that is the envy of the world, then you people can create your own such country instead of trying to steal the USA from the Anglos.
The USA belongs to the Anglos, and they didn't even invite you people to their country, you people forced your way in.

9:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thørsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

Hey rramos, I want to point out to you that so many immigrant groups in the USA totally feel welcome and have joined our society 100%. They don't feel alienated at all. I am talking about Flilipinos, Vietnamese, Chinese, Samoans......
I think macho Hispanic pride will not allow you proud Hispanicks to join USA society because you people see that society as the society of your hated historic rivals, the "Anglos", and you people would feel humiliated to join such a society. It would be the final insult, that the "Anglos" have defeated their hated historic rivals, the Hispanics. And proud Hispanicks will never ever accept defeat to the Anglos. That's why you people refuse to give your kids American names and why you people refsue to accept English as our language and why you people blatantly disrespect the USA in so many other ways, like refusing to acknowledge Anglos created the USA.

from Univision news anchor Maria Salinas:

Subj: RE: (no subject)
Date: 03/10/2003 10:59:42 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: msalinas@UNIVISION.NET (Maria Elena Salinas)
To: PThorsen240@aol.com

I am sorry but you do not know what you are talking about. This is my country, and if you think the Anglos created it, you need to take some history lessons.
mes

10:47 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thørsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

Hey Abraham, if you are so insistent that the present day USA belongs to the natives and not to Europeans, why is it you people are obsessed with wanting to make Spanish our official language,and dictate we give full Spanish names to our cities and streets, and why is it you people give your kids full Spanish names and even make it law in your countries that kids be given Spanish names?
It looks to me as if it is a ruse by you Hispanics to try to use the natives to wipe out ALL English names in the USA.

12:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Looks like a clash of civilizations...

1:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Texas, Florida, New Mexico, Arizona, California, Nevada and Colorado are the hispaniards legacy to the USA.

The Anglos have stolen these territories and must carry on its consecuence.

The American Empire has also invaded or mismanaged many countries in latinamerica converting many of its people in migrants.

Anglos must carry on and asume its consecuence.

8:17 AM  
Anonymous Bob De Silva said...

After scanning through your story on cracking down on Illegal immigrants is to costly, it is one of the most outrageous things I have ever read. What to you left wing liberals think, that breaking the law makes it OK because of the vast numbers?
You have to be one of the stupidest so called writers to have the privilege to live in this country, if you like Mexico so much why don't you move your sorry ass there?
People like you make me sick, get a life and move out.
Bob De Silva
Las Vegas, Nevada

2:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thørsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

hey anonymous, Nevada and Colorado each had ZERO Hispanicks living there in 1848 and thousands of Indians. No Hispanicks in the northern 90% of Arizona. But many Indians living there. The Anglos stole that land from the Indians.
It was you Hispanicks who stole the American continent from the Indians under the Papal decree in 1493. The Anglos didn't steal Disneyland, nor the Hollowood movie industry, nor the colleges and universities in the sotuhwest, nor the electrical grids, nor the roads and highways, nor the ports and harbors, nor the telephone systems, nor the sewers, nor the aqueducts, nor the Golden Gate Bridge, nor Hoover Dam, nor the Las Vegas gaming industry, nor the California agriculture industry, nor Silicon Valley....
Hispanicks never wanted that land, as there was no gold to steal. That's why they had to send orphans and criminals to settle Los Angeles, and which is why their towns were all dying out by 1848.

From "Arizona, a History", by Thomas Sheridan copyright 1995.
page 27
What we do know is this: Coronado's failure to find great cities of gold and silver put an end to Spanish designs on the region for the next 40 years. No other Europeans entered Arizona until the 1580's, and they came from New Mexico, not Sonora. The fantasy of Cibola could not compare with the fortunes being made in Zacatecas, Guanajuato, and San Luis Potosi. Because of those great silver strikes, Mexico's bonanza lay forever to the south.

10:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thørsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

hey anonymous, can you plaase explain to me how the USA "mismanaged" Latin America?
Why do you people demand we invade??

from "A Brief History of the Caribbean", by Jan Rogozinski, copyright 1992
page 229
In August 1906, Estrada's Liberal opponent, Jose Miguel Gomez led an insurrection that quickly spread over the islands. Estrada, who had only tiny army, appealed for help to President Theodore Roosevelt. Roosevelt, refusing to intervene, instead sent William Howard Taft, the secretary of war, to negotiate a compromise.

from "Inside Central America", by Clifford Krauss, copyright 1991.
page 293
In more than a decade of covering conflicts in Nicaragua, El Salvador, and Guatemala, I had never heard such open demands for American intervention or seen people less ready to take responsibility for their own political affairs. Panamanians, demonstrating their psychological dependency on the United States, both held Washington responsible for their problems and depended on Washington to solve them.

10:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thørsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

hey anonymous, do you want to see theft??

http://www.emayzine.com/lectures/HISTOR~7.htm
When the Castro government expropriated an estimated $1 billion in U.S.-owned properties in 1960.......

http://www.uscubacommission.org/history3.html
March 3, 1959 - The Cuban government nationalizes the Cuban Telephone Company, an affiliate of ITT, and immediately reduces telephone rates.

January 1960 - Cuba expropriates 70,000 acres of property owned by U.S. sugar companies which includes 35,000 acres of pasture and forest land owned by United Fruit, (now United Brands and Chiquita Brands). United Brands owns an additional 235,000 acres of land in Cuba and several hundred thousand acres in Guatemala. In 1954 the government of Guatemala threatened to expropriate all of United Fruit's land holdings in that country.

June 6, 1960 - Cuba requests the two US oil refineries, Texaco and Esso, and one British refinery, Shell, to process a shipment of Russian crude oil. The companies refuse and on June 28 Cuba orders the refineries nationalized.

July 5, 1960 - Cuba orders the nationalization of all US businesses and commercial properties in Cuba.

August 6, 1960 - Cuba nationalizes all U.S. owned industrial and agrarian enterprises.
September 17, 1960 - Cuba nationalizes all US banks including First National City Bank of New York, First National Bank of Boston, and Chase Manhattan Bank.

October 24, 1960 - In response to the U.S. declaration on October 19 that it will impose an embargo, Cuba announces that it will nationalizes all remaining U.S. property on the island.

10:34 PM  
Blogger Truth Matters said...

Andres,

Here are the problems/falsehoods/inaccuracies with your original column from 4/29.

1) "OK, you anti-immigration isolationist flag-wavers out there,"

False. Most people are not "anti-immigration" They are anti-ILLEGAL immigration. Somehow you and every other open borders columnist fails to understand this. Legal immigration good; illegal immigration bad. Got it????

2) You say "You would have 12 million second-class citizens -- mostly Hispanics -- who would not only be disenfranchised from mainstream society, but who would be legally barred from aspiring to join it. That would be a recipe for frustration, anger and rebellion."

First of all, we would not have 12 million second-class "citizens". We have 12 million illegal immigrants, most of which do not speak English and/or are poorly educated. Second, if we get serious about fining employers who hire illegal immigrants AND begin deporting illegal immigrants that have committed crimes (including failure to pay taxes, identity theft, and document fraud) then we won't have 12 million of those people here. Their numbers will decrease as they are either deported or choose to leave on their own after finding that employers are not willing to hire them.

3) "Third, massive deportations of hard-working people would not only be morally questionable, but socially and economically insane."

United States law states that it is illegal for a person to enter the country without valid documentation (proof of citizenship/residence or a VISA). Explain how removing these people who have broken our law is "morally questionable"??? Also, I'd like to know how removing low income, unskilled workers with poor English would be "socially insane".

4) "There are an estimated 3.1 million children born in the United States whose parents do not have legal immigration papers, according to the Pew Research Center. These children are U.S. citizens."

That is true. The problem is that those children should not be US citizens. The US is the only country that determines citizenship based on geographic birthplace instead of parents' citizenship.

5) "Are you proposing giant government-paid orphanages? Massive and expensive foster care?"

No, the children would get deported with their parents.

6) "According to the Center for American Progress, deportation would conservatively cost $206 billion over the next five years. "

The Center for American Progress is a very left wing liberal group that has routinely distorted and lied on issues. I doubt that number is accurate or reliable.

7) "Fourth, undocumented workers nowadays fill about 1.4 million jobs in the construction industry, 1.2 million jobs in the leisure and hospitality industries, and hundreds of thousands of jobs in the agriculture industry. If they are deported, who will take their place?"

US citizens/permanent residents who are unemployed (which is ~4.4% of the population). They will take those jobs.

8) "American consumers would have to pay much more for housing, eating out at a restaurant, or buying food at a supermarket."

No, not true. Illegal workers represent 5% of the total workforce. There are plenty of companies who DON'T hire illegal workers and the prices of the goods from these companies aren't overpricing Americans.

9) "Fifth, deporting the undocumented or putting unrealistic hurdles in the path to citizenship, as the White House is considering, would create political havoc in Mexico, and worsen social tensions throughout Latin America."

So what??? Who cares??? Our job is to enact policies and laws to protect the USA and its citizens; the government's job is NOT to reduce political havoc in Mexico or lessen social tensions in Latin America.

10) "Deportees returning to their home countries would dramatically drive up unemployment, and deprive some of the region's poorest communities of the $60 billion a year that Latin Americans living in the United States send home in family remittances every year. In several countries, that's by far the biggest source of foreign income."

Andres, thank you for stating one of the main differences between the legal educated immigrants and the low skilled ILLEGAL immigrants. These people come to our country (ILLEGALLY) and then send all the money they earn back to their country, thereby NOT growing US GDP. And we're supposed to make these people citizens????

11) "An unstable Mexico would not only hurt the U.S. economy, but could make it much easier for Islamic terrorists to use the U.S. border as a springboard for terrorist attacks on United States."

Andres, an unstable Mexico IS CURRENTLY hurting the US economy. Let me see if I get this straight. Securing the border and putting more effort into deporting illegal immigrants would make it MORE likely for terrorists to enter our country illegally????

12) "But closing the door to citizenship, or making it an unrealistically expensive and long process, would not only hurt the U.S. economy but would create the seeds of a Hispanic intifada at home -- and chaos on our borders."

Andres, if Hispanics want to become angry about the fact that the US is enforcing existing laws that have been on the books for many years in the interest of its citizens safety and economic security, then they should go live somewhere else. Oh and we already have chaos on the borders--as evidenced by the fact that we've allowed 9 million more illegal immigrants to enter over the past 20 years (1986-2007). Yet, you're telling me that increasing border security and removing illegal immigrants is going to create MORE chaos on the border? Uh, NO.

13) "We should do exactly the opposite: reward hard-working, tax-paying people with a way to fulfill the American dream, the way it has always been."

You are missing one word from your statement. It should read "We should do exactly the opposite: reward hard-working, tax-paying, law-abiding people with a way to fulfill the American dream, the way it has always been.

That is the fundamental core difference between the open borders pro-amnesty people like you and most Americans who want to stop illegal immigration.

2:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thørsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

Hey "Truth Matters", Hispanicks don't come here to chase the American dream. I see nothing from them that tells me they want to be American. To join USA society would make them "sellouts" in the Hispanick community. That's why Hispanicks refuse to accept English as our language, it's why they boo USA international sports teams, it's why they will not buy USA cars, it's why they will not give their kids American names, it's why they wave foreign flags all over the USA, it's why they denigrate the many achievements of the USA/"Anglos"........

8:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

paul thorsen. why you dont shut your mouth. everything that comes out of your mouth, are just pure ignorant lies. and also. you are full of bias points. you tell maria Elena Salinas[ she's is a full american citizen] to shut up!! why, cause she's giving facts ,and not fictional points from star trek like you?

dude, you should need to go back to school and study world history deeply. after that, you would understand the immigration patterns. and dont call hardworking people illegal alliens. and also, like it or not, this immigrants will get a legal status.they cant be slaves for people like you forever. ignorants with your mentality are messing up the country. i guess you live on wellfare and cheat the goverment.

let me tell you, in the streets, most of the beggers i see, are real american anglos like you. i dont see an undocumented beggin, most are looking for work.

8:14 AM  

Post a Comment

<< Home