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Monday, September 10, 2007

THIS IS WHAT I THINK ABOUT THE UNIVISION DEBATE

Couple of things: 1) The questions by Jorge Ramos and Maria Elena Salinas were very good; 2) The simulteanous translation was HORRIBLE (the guy who dubbed Sen. Christopher Dodd sounded like a character from Sesame Street); 3) Hillary Clinton, to her credit, criticized Hispanic bashing in the media (a close aide to Clinton was quoted in The New York Times today as saying that she was referring to CNN's Lou Dobbs and radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh) ; 4) Sens. Clinton, Obama and Dodd did so-so when asked why they supported the border fence: instead of saying that they voted so in order to get a path to citizenship for 12 million people without legal status, they tried to defend the border fence (which is a bad idea, as we have said many times, because the only way to reduce the flow of migrants will be reducing the income gap between Mexicans and Americans.) Summing up, the debate was a great idea, but it got lost in translation.

32 Comments:

Blogger Carlos Erban said...

I think that the main goal of the debate was achieved: to galvanize overwhelming Hispanic support behind the Democrats. I found it ironic that it was held in Miami, where most Hispanics are Cubans and vote mostly Republican. I agree with you that the translations were horrible. I thought Obama's translation was especially bad. I kept trying to hear in between the lines Obama's response. He is a great speaker, but it was all lost in the translation. I think it would have been better to let each candidate respond in English and then translate the answer to Spanish (as they do in the Miss Universe), or add subtitles with the Spanish translation. It would have taken probably 30 minutes more but improved the quality. This would also allow all the English speaking only viewers to understand the debate. I am all for inclusiveness. I was disappointed how Univision immediately jumped to a soap opera of sorts right after the debate without any analysis or dibriefing. I found it very interesting how the debates were reported in major newspapers -- for the most part as a plus for Democrats and a minus for Republicans.

6:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thørsen
PThorsen240@aol.com

so åndêrš, you think it is up to the USA to bring Mexico's economy up to the level of the USA? Tell us why you don't think it is up to Mexico to bring up their own economy. Hispanicks insist they made the USA great so I wonder what's keeping them from making their own countries great.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/266257_rally11.html
Tuesday, April 11, 2006
Marchers pumped their fists in the air as they chanted, "Estados Unidos, es nada sin Latinos." Translation: "The United States is nothing without Latinos."

http://www.fsa.ulaval.ca/personnel/vernag/REF/Textes/Huntington.htm
in the words of Prof. Damian Fernandez of Florida International University, "We built modern Miami," and made its economy larger than those of many Latin American countries.

10:31 PM  
Blogger Miguel Tormentas said...

has recibido un pelusa blog award, para más información

http://migueltormentas.blogspot.com/2007/09/el-pas-de-octubre-recibe-un-pelusa-blog.html

12:50 AM  
Anonymous Dr. Salvo said...

I kind of disagree with you in the first point: I think that the questions were BAAAAAAD. It seems that immigration is the only topic that Hispanics care about. It is a condescending attitude from the part of the hispanic media to assume that all hispanics MUST care about immigration just because they speak the language. It is falling rigth into the establishment trap that tries to tell all of us how to feel and what to think. The main problem with this line of reasoning is that the opposite becomes also true: if all hispanic MUST care about immigration, then all Anglos SHOULD, too and the whole ethnic battle is all validated. If we, Hispanics, put ourselves in that position we'll loose it. However, what in the freaking world does mean to be Hispanic: speaking Spanish? What about those Chinese nationals that have learned to speak Spanish: Are they Hispanics, too? What about those second or third generation chicanos that don't speak Spanish: Are they Anglos? What about those born in Argentina like you Andrés, but obviously are descendants of central Europeans immigrants (Oppenheimer): Are they still Hispanics or what? What about those Guatemalan immigrants thst speak only Mayan languages: Are they also Hispanics?
Since I am a professor of Translation/Interpreting I would like to set the record streight: it is not "simultaneous translation", it is 'Interpreting" or Interpretation.

7:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Andresito, what we Americans critizice is not legal latin American immigrats, what we do not like and will always combat is illegal aliens be them Latin Americans, Africans, Asians, European or even extraterrestial. So Clinton and y7ou are very wrong. Shame on you Argentinian.

9:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To reduce the gap between Mexico and the USA is not the job of us Americans , it is the job of the corrupt politicians of Mexico. They can use all their oil revenues to create jobs in Mexico for Mexicans and not to icrease their personal numbered accounts in Swiss or Caribbean Banks!!

9:48 AM  
Anonymous Carlos said...

I agree that it is up to the Mexicans to create a economic environment that promotes the creation of wealth. Mexicans shall do the same as Franco and Pinochet did in their countries, where people is living today almost as good as the inhabitants of the 1st world. What Mexico shall not do is copy the way Castro has destroyed the economy of Cuba, and I am afraid that they are more inclined to do the second instead of the first.

9:57 AM  
Anonymous Santi said...

Sr Erban: the only people galvanized who will vote for the democrats are the illegals (oops, they do not vote), we the voters will never vote for a democrat or republican that supports amnisty for illegal alliens, be them from Latin America, Asia, Africa, Europe, Australia or even extraterrestrial

10:14 AM  
Blogger Jaime said...

Santi,
You are mistaken. I support the Democratic party and will support a candidate who pursues some form of legalization for undocumented workers, especially those from Mexico.

By the way as a native born American, I am also a citizen. And yes there are many Americans with similar backgrounds as myself who will also vote for a candidate with similar political views.

In addition what is lost is a need to rid the the Cold War loophole that allows any Cuban to receive welfare and a path to citizenship, simply because they swam farther than my Mexican cousins.

JA

5:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can't help but weigh in.

First of all, a fence is absolutely necessary to keep out terrorists, drug runners and yes illegal immigrants from all sources. It is not just Mexicans coming across illegally.

Of course Mr. Oppenheimer is correct in saying that the ultimate fix is to equalize wages betweem Mexico and the United States. What is just as apparent is the fact that because so many other than Mexican slip across, their countries wages need to be equalized also.

The fix will take time and the United States, as any country, just cannot take too many anybodies too fast.

Jaime seems to be a pocho. I see them constantly and although all of us mutts in America should be proud and knowledgeable about our heritage, we should recognize and appreciate the country in which we live and from which we receive so much first. Jaime is an American first and of Hispanic origin more remotely. It is incumbent on legal residents of the United States to vociferously denounce illegal immigration, especially those of Hispanic heritage. Otherwise the nut cases in this country and some unthinking, but well meaning people will tar all brown skins and Hispanic surnamed people with the traitor or the racist, anti- non Hispanic brush.

One can be loyal to their country and their heritage. One just should not choose heritage over country to the detriment of both.
If being a Mexican is more important than being an American, one should probably go live in Mexico.

We need to build this country up again. We do not need the racist Can't help but weigh in.

First of all, a fence is absolutely necessary to keep out terrorists, drug runners and yes illegal immigrants from all sources. It is not just Mexicans coming across illegaly.

Of course Mr. Oppenheimer is correct in saying that the ultimate fix is to equalize wages betweem Mexico and the United States. What is just as apparent is the fact that because so many other than Mexican slip across, their countries wages need to be equalized also.

The fix will take time and the United States, as any country, just cannot take too many anybodies too fast.

Jaime seems to be a pocho. I see them constantly and although all of us mutts in America should be proud and knowledgeable about our heritage, we should recognize and appreciate the country in which we live and from which we receive so much first. Jaime is an American first and of Hispanic origin more remotely. It is incumbent on legal residents of the United States to vociferously denounce illegal immigration, especially those of Hispanic heritage. Otherwise the nut cases in this country and some unthinking, but well meaning people will tar all brown skins and Hispanic surnamed people with the traitor or the racist, anti- non Hispanic brush.

One can be loyal to their country and their heritage. One just should not choose heritage over country to the detriment of both. We need to build in this country. We do not need racist chauvinism from any source either from Mexican to "Anglo" or vice versa.

11:36 PM  
Blogger Jaime said...

Oh Anonymous you are so wise and straightforward, and may I add brave. Is it Anonymous Smith or just Mr. Anonymous? And your name-calling is original and clever; I didn't know I was a Pocho. Yes, of course a fence is necessary since it worked so well for the Communists in Berlin and the Chinese; because a wall is much more effective for stopping drug trafficking, then maybe getting to Americans stop buying so many illegal drugs. No demand, no drugs.

Oh Anonymous you are such a patriot and good American that you attack someone, another American by the way, by telling him to leave for a foreign country because he disagrees with your overly simplistic argument. Yes, that is what I call patriotism. Yes, Anonymous I will go back to my country-oh wait I am already here.

JA

1:03 AM  
Anonymous Dr. Salvo said...

Do you see Andrés? The whole blog ended up to be about immigration, like it is the only topic that concerns Hispanics and the only topic in which Hispanics should be allowed to participate. It's preposterous!

By the way, you morons, more than 60% of illegal immigration from Mexico is of people that overstay their tourist visa. The image of the Mexican running through the desert, swimming the river or jumping the fences is very impactant from the media point of view, but irrelevant at the end of the day. Have you heard of airplanes? They actually "fly" (yes, fly, very impressive) over the freaking idiotic fences.

8:05 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To All,

I apologize for the cut and paste fiasco in the comment of three before this.

Dr. Salvo,

Could you please reference your source for the stats of Mexicans overstaying visas? I also must say that those of us who live on the border would certainly be inclined to complain about the land crossers who trash the land and use emergency services at a rate putting hospitals on overload financially and logistically.

Jaime,
After reading your reply to my post and ignoring the ad hominem attacks the only response I have
is to remind you that the Chinese wall was effective in keeping invaders out and the Berlin wall in keeping people in,(therefore not analogous).

10:36 AM  
Blogger Jaime said...

Dear Anonymous,
You continue with your overly simplistic interpretations of history-Is it a public school education to blame, maybe a football coach for a history teacher?

Yes, you are obviously correct. The Berlin Wall was a complete success. It is a model to follow for all budding totalitarian regimes. Regimes where you would feel comfortable telling people to leave, simply because they disagree with you. If you don't like living on the border, then move and the rest of us will stay.

It is also ironic that you ask for sources from Dr. Salvo, and yet you offer no evidence other than your cheerful name-calling. Yes, very clever. But since you asked for a source here it is:

Posted on Thu, May. 25, 2006
THE OPPENHEIMER REPORT
Study shows why border walls won't work
BY ANDRES OPPENHEIMER

Most of the information for the article was obtained from the Pew Research Center.

JA

12:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jaime,

As a matter of fact I love living on the border. My family goes back and forth since the late 1800s.

What concerns me is the illegal crosser who should meet at the least the same resistance that an illegal crosser meets at the southern border of Mexico and in the interior.

Walls to protect against non-citizens are not the same as walls to control citizens.

I would hope that you could see the difference.

Thanks for the reference to the Pew Center. I think it a reliable source of statistics.

9:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The debate just expands the reach of political posturing to more living rooms, there has always been a larger number of transitioning immigrants than mainstream americans would feel comfortable knowing about... for centuries now... coming to america. The Univision debate speeds the transition by brining the american political process to new americans just as much as it welcomes new americans to have their opinions count just a tiny bit more during these harsh times for immigrants, documented and otherwise.

1:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nice to hear someone bringing up at the debate the shamelessness of scumbag lou dobbs, now if she would have called him out by name rather than as a post-election add-on.
Unfortunately, you still hear excuses for the ridiculous border wall...
the debate's a start for inclusiveness... but it's much.

1:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The fence would be innecessary if the US enforze the laws that are already in the books. Any employer hiring illegals will be fined significantly and if cought a second time sent to jail.
To this it will be wise to add, the children of the illegals will never ever be American citizens, illegals will not have free access to health care or any other form of wellfare. Illegals will never be issued a driver license, they will never ever be allowed to send money to their countries. I we apply these simple rules the fence won't be necessary. Regarding terrorists, these are muslims and muslims can recognized on the spot.

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