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Thursday, May 24, 2007


Here's some little-noticed potential fallout of the immigration reform package being debated in the U.S. Congress: Its merit-based admissions criteria may favor Asian immigrants over Latin Americans. Read here why Asian immigrants will have an advantage, my opinion about it, and let us know what YOU think.


Blogger Unknown said...

The bill addresses who might be allowed legal entry into the US, but it does absolutely nothing to address the mess that a legal immigrant faces after entry. Depending on which government agency is reporting “facts,” there are somewhere between tens of thousands to a few million legal immigrants who are stuck in the FBI “security check” black hole. The new bill appears to outrightly eliminate any chance of forcing the FBI to complete the backlog of these checks (e.g., through writ of mandamus). My wife is a nurse – part of the “desirable” group under the bill – but one of millions already here who have been blackholed by the FBI name check process for many years with no progress toward gaining legal permanent residency. Any politician who uses the phrase “path to citizenship” to describe this bill is ignorant of how the residency and citizenship processes currently function; the bill will instead increase the size of the blackhole that sits in the middle of that path.

11:31 AM  
Blogger David Leon said...

I agree with this bill because we have to have well educated and fluent English speakers in America. For decades we have had ignorant people who don't speak and don't want to learn to speak English. My parents emigrated to the States in the early 60s and learned the language and worked hard to obtain everyting they were able to get. When Castro came to power in Cuba, what kind of people fled to the States? Educated, good, hard working people like teachers, lawyers, doctors, etc. Now we have only the lowest classes of foreign societies coming into the country. No wonder Latin Americans are not well liked or looked upon by Americans. They are ignorant, lazy and unwilling to mix into our society. I hope this bill passes so we can open our doors to hard working people like the ones who made America the great country it is. Look at who built the country- immigrants from England, Holland, Germany, Ireland, Italy, etc. Good people. We need those kinds of people again, not the trash that arrives nowadays.

11:42 AM  
Blogger David Leon said...

I agree with this bill because we have to have well educated and fluent English speakers in America. For decades we have had ignorant people who don't speak and don't want to learn to speak English. My parents emigrated to the States in the early 60s and learned the language and worked hard to obtain everyting they were able to get. When Castro came to power in Cuba, what kind of people fled to the States? Educated, good, hard working people like teachers, lawyers, doctors, etc. Now we have only the lowest classes of foreign societies coming into the country. No wonder Latin Americans are not well liked or looked upon by Americans. They are ignorant, lazy and unwilling to mix into our society. I hope this bill passes so we can open our doors to hard working people like the ones who made America the great country it is. Look at who built the country- immigrants from England, Holland, Germany, Ireland, Italy, etc. Good people. We need those kinds of people again, not the trash that arrives nowadays.

11:42 AM  
Blogger David Leon said...

I totally agree with this bill because we need to have hard working and English speaking people in the country. Latin Americans are inferior to other immigrants because they lack the education that others have. My parents emigrated to the US in the early 1960s and learned the language and worked very hard to obtain everything they have now. They gave me the best education they could. When Castro came to power in Cuba in 1959 what kind of people fled to America? Good, educated, hard working people like teachers, doctors, lawyers, among others. These people were welcomed with open arms. Who built America? Immigrants from Irland, England, Holland, Germany, Italy, etc. People who worked very hard to make America the great country it is. But now we have these ignorant, uneducated people who are unwilling to mix with others (they always stay with their own people) coming and Americans take offense to this. Maybe hard working Asians is what we need. They are educated and speak English. I believe they would contribute to make America great again.

11:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. Oppenheimer,
Todays article makes perfect sense...that is if you're a loyal citizen of a
latin american country. Who's side are you on anyway?
You act like you're an agent of a foreign government. If you are, or if your
loyalties lie elsewhere, I think that you should preface your comments acknowledging
that fact. Any corporate entity, including a country should always seek to hire
(or let immigrate) the best and the brightest so as to further the shareholders
(citizens) value in the company (country). In order to effectively compete in the
future high tech global economy we are going to be wanting more engineers, not people
who have an apptitude for picking tomatoes.
Sincerely, Marc Manfredi

2:50 PM  
Blogger Andres Oppenheimer said...

Marc, the same things you say about Latin Americans were once said in the U.S. about Irish, or Jews, or other immigrant groups, who ended up making great contributions to this country. And I happen to think that the future of the United States is intertwined with the future of Mexico and the rest of the neighborhood.
Andres Oppenheimer

3:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

david leon. you sound racist.. hey, dont blame those poor immigrants for lack of education. blame thosedumb and corrupt latin american governors. they careless about their dwellers. Insted, they steal their money. and they dont fund education. No wonder why mexicans and most latin americans with no money, could barely read or write. you are not even european. you are a cuban. that means that you are the same as a mexican, peruvian or honduran. good for you if you learn the english language, had an opportunity to achieve and education goal. but you have to be realistic. this country needs laborers to do the job no americans, or legal educated immigrants like you want to do. and why not give this poor peasants and opportunity to earn money by helping americans to do their dirty laundry. if you are so educated like you said, you also know that to equalize the economy, both formal and informal need eaech other to strive.

5:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. O:
You have just shifted the compass from outsourcing to displacing american jobs right at home. Your analysis is "on the money," as these talented immigrants will compete against white collar americans. We will be in theory a day without latinos... It would do the US gov't well to promote a fair immigration act, not a discriminatory ["because you don't speak English and because you are
uneducated"] approach. Hopefully such a myopic view can be corrrected in the following revisions before it becomes a law.

US intervention in Latin America has contributed to the current state of L.Am. economics. They supported so many corrupt LatinAm governments in the past, that
it helped set the tone for what exists today. More corruption, lack of social, health, and economic programs that would benefit the people. We all share the western hemisphere, and there needs to be some global perspective.

thank you for yet another well analyzed and comprehensive report.

Iris V.

6:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. Oppenheimer,

I agree 100% with Mr. De Leon's comments. One language makes a country stronger. Communication is a key tool to success. I immigrated to the USA, learned the language, went ot school and absorb the American culture. I left my country of origin to become an American, to look for new horizons. This is a beautiful country and I appreciate it VERY MUCH. Opportunities are here for anybody of any race, religion or national origin. I have been successful due to my hard work and education. We can not keep bringing people who do not want to learn the language, educate themselves. The USA is a wide territory, not Hialeah, not Miami. Opportunities are there for those who speak English and better opportunities for those who are bilingual; limited for those with only a foreign language.

I do not want my children to carry the burden of incompetence, we can not have a larger number of the population who are just gardeners; we are going to need doctors, nurses and engineers. I do not know how you will feel if your mother or a family member were sick and the doctor attending her was a doctor who could not communicate with the nurse, you and or the patient. Please tell me what would be your reaction.

We should accept only people who want to respect the laws and are willing to learn the English language, the official language of the country, not the language of canal 23 and others.

D. Castano

10:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

See the comments at Creating Thresholds for Immigrants

10:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thørsen

Hey åndêrš, I have been saying for years that we need to bring in Asians instead of Hispanicks. Bringing in Hispanicks will be suicide for the USA.
Asians look up to and respect the USA and want to be just like us and very much want to be a part of USA society.
Hispanicks have nothing but disdain and hatred for the USA, seeing the USA as an extension of the UK, the hatred historic rivals of their beloved Spaniards, and they are very, very upset that the "Anglos" have outdone them on the world stage to the point that Hispanicks pay their life savings to make desparate attempts to sneak into Anglolandia, and so they feel humiliated and then hate.

12:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thørsen

Hey åndêrš, I wasn't around to see Italian and Irish immigrants.
I can only comment on what I see now.
I see Hispanicks as the ONLY immigrant group who refuse to learn English, the ONLY immigrant group that will not give their kids American names, the ONLY immigrant group that tries to force their language on the USA, the ONLY immigrant group that boos USA international sports teams, the ONLY immigrant group that refuse to buy American made cars, the ONLY immigrant group that refuses to acknowldege Anglos created the USA.
Hispanicks come to steal the USA from the Anglos, not to join USA society as ALL other immigrant groups do. Theft being the historic legacy of the Hispanick race of people.

12:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

d. castano and paul thorsen. both of you are full of boloney. your points of view are baseless. this country needs immigrants for their survival. but i agreed in one points. suckers like you this country to get rid off!!! also. i dont think nobody can work better than the spanish speaking immigrants from latin american. you thorsen need to do something better with your time than be here posting your racist remakrs. and the other fool that amkes a mockery of canal 23 and Hialeah. if you dont like Hialeah, dont go there..and if you hate canal 23, switch to Lou Dobbs on CNN..simple as that.

8:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thørsen

Hey anonymous, apparently you didn't read my post where I practically begged the USA to instead import Mahatma Gandhi Indians, Southeast Asians and Filipinos to do the work now done by Hispanicks. "Racist"? yeah, right.

8:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the main objetive of this plan is to make 60 billions of dollars, mainly to support the Irak campaign.

There are 12 millions of illegal immigrants. They will pay 5,000 dollars for the green card.

Americans, please,ask your congressman that money won´t be aimed to the military budget.


Ruben P.
Rosario - Argentina

12:13 PM  
Blogger Luis F. Jaramillo Q. said...

America has not a native culture. It´s mix of lots of cultures, from Jews to Irish. So, it´s absurd to talk about the protection of the American Culture, even in the times of globalization, where the United States is the dominating super power and is net-culture exporter.

Then, America (Democrats take note !) should be more comprehensive with Latin America signing more and fairer trade agreements that could make the southern part of the neighborhood progress (FTA`s plus high investements in educaction and tax-exemptions for those who invest in IT) and then stopping inmigration. Also, Latin America could buy much more american products (With higher purchasing power), creating employment opportunities in the United States.

So, it´s sad to see american citizens with latin parents to talk in that way from their so called "brothers". May be they would not like that they parents receive contemptuous treatments when arriving to America.

8:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thørsen

Hey Luis Jaramillo, Spanish isn't the native culture of Cuba. Nor is it the only culture found in Cuba. You have ethnic Lebanese and ethnic Chinese living there.
So, its absurd to talk about the protection of the Cuban Culture in Cuba and using that same reasoning when forcing your way into Anglo society here in the USA.

3:16 AM  
Blogger Luis F. Jaramillo Q. said...


Please excuse me. With "pure", I meant the pure culture of America, as if it was possible to keep it "pure".

I´m not talking about culture protection in Latin America. One of the consequences of globalization is the mix of cultures, so, it´s impossible (And absurd) to talk of pure and "traditional" cultures. That reminds me the Nazi speech.

7:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

from: Paul Thørsen

Hey Luis Jeramillo, "globalization" isn't why there are now tens of millions of Hispanicks living in the USA.
What it's about is you Hispanicks wanting the hell out of your countries and desprately wanting into Anglo soceties. That combined with a mindset that you Hispanicks will not be stopped from forcing your way into Anglolanida. That's why there are now tens of millions of you people here in Anglolandia.

9:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


The good people who came from europe were just as ignorant as the latin americans who move to the USA to clean floors, most europeans didnt even spoke english. Their kids got better oportunities by recieving a better education.

5:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. Oppenheimer:

It is pretty clear, from the reading of some comments in this blog, that many of your readers do not understand what America is all about.

It was the French who gave the world the concept of freedom (Liberté). The French concept of freedom though was conceived as a trilogy. For the French there is no freedom without fraternity (Fraternité) and solidarity (Solidarité). Their concept of freedom is from its inception a social concept; there is no freedom outside of society. This concept has endured the test of time and even today, every Frenchman, regardless of their political ideology, will live and die for this principle.

We Americans in turn, have given the world a more refined and audacious concept of freedom. A concept that was proclaimed to the world in a simple and straight forward document with very few words but, certainly, most poetical.

… “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” …

This is our legacy to the world and to human kind. We gave the world the concept of “individual freedom”. A concept of freedom that stands alone on its own merits because it is not a creation of our intellect but indeed the will of our creator; whomever you may deem that to be.

A concept of freedom that is all inclusive and, further, has no boundaries; a concept of freedom with no social, political, religious, economic, educational and/or racial conditions or limitations.

Everything else in America, except arguably for baseball, has been assimilated by us from other cultures and societies. Even our language is foreign; English is a Germanic language an as a matter of fact the name of the language itself derives from “Englisc” which is the name of the language that the Angles tribes, originally from Engel, spoke during the fifth century.

Our concept of freedom though is absolutely unique and our commitment to live by this concept is guarded by the souls of our soldiers in Arlington as well as the Normandy Cemetery and Memorial in France.

This is who we are and it is under the shining light of this principle that we should seek the solution to the very real but over simplified and certainly intentionally manipulated immigration problem.

The immigration problem is a human, economic, security and cultural problem. We have to look at each problem individually and come up with solutions that address each part of the problem without corrupting the essence of who we are and what we believe.

The high standard of our freedom concept is what makes America special and the vital force that has built the most prosperous land on earth. It is not easy to live by that standard though and at times we tend to drift away.

In the last couple years we have drifted away from our principles further than any time before in our entire history. As a matter of fact, we have endured a vicious and deliberate campaign by feverish conservative and self serving forces to make us believe that empty slogans, misleading information, lies, a culture of secrecy, assassinations, kidnappings, tortures and the violation of civil rights are righteous tools of our democracy because they are for the good and protection of the people.

Indeed we have been led to believe that the language and excuse of every single totalitarian government and dictatorship in the history of mankind is an adequate language and guideline for our democracy.

We have also endured and continue to endure a relentless campaign against the so called “illegal immigrants” that promotes shameful and openly discriminatory “know nothings” arguments of the past as well as solutions that negate our concept of freedom, as the adequate conceptual framework for the immigration debate.

We have come very close to becoming what we despise and in doing so we have neglected the basic principles of freedom and democracy in which we believe and for which so many Americans have died.

Today, as always before, the American people, who are the real custodians of our identity, are raising their voices against this massive propaganda scheme and our politicians have started to realize that, “we, the people” want to go back to the safe harbor of our freedoms and beliefs.

In this context, the farewell words of Cindy Sheehan today - the soldier's mother who galvanized an anti-war movement with her month long protest outside President Bush's ranch - are indeed eloquent.

…“Good-bye America ... you are not the country that I love and I finally realized no matter how much I sacrifice, I can't make you be that country unless you want it. "It's up to you now."…

She also said that the most devastating conclusion she has reached ….

"was that Casey did indeed die for nothing ... killed by his own country which is beholden to and run by a war machine that even controls what we think." …

It is pity that even though educated and fluent in English some of your readers do not have the least idea of what we are and what we stand for. Further it is amazing that they pride themselves of believing in principles that are alien to America.

We do not believe in different shades and grades of freedom. We believe that the single concept of freedom that has allowed your Cuban American reader to enjoy the good life in the US applies to everyone. How to reconcile this principle with the necessary measures we need to take in order to solve the multiple problems generated by immigration is the challenge we need to face.

It makes me think though; maybe we are better off with the ignorant immigrants. At least they do not seem to pose the kind of threat to our principles, beliefs and values that the educated migrants do.

4:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. Oppenheimer:

I invite you to read a post in my blog that expands further on the immigration issue.

Immigration or Ethnic Cleansing Debate? That is the question

4:35 AM  
Blogger Bauta said...

When you have millions of people coming from the same region, the result is that they don't feel the need to assimilate to the new society and they don't learn the language. Hispanics in America and Muslims in Europe don't want to assimilate, they want to impose their culture. Now the US is going to bring 7,000 more Muslims from Irak. Wonderful ah?

1:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Bauta:

That is not quite true. Let me explain.

1) At a certain point in our history over 74% of the New York population was foreign and they eventually assimilated. Further, in the 1900’s the foreign born population of the United States was higher than in the year 2000 and they have assimilated as well.
In the process we also assimilated some of their customs and traditions. A token of that is the Saint Patrick's Ball held in the White House and certainly the bagpipes that are today an American tradition at the funeral of any policeman and/or firefighter who dies in the line of duty.

2) While numbers do have an impact on the assimilation process, it is the endurance and fortitude of the principles that eventually determine which culture prevails.

If you make a list of everything you believe to be American and do some research you will find that none of it, except as I mentioned before arguably Baseball and certainly Rock and Roll, is indeed American.

The logical question then is; how can there be an American culture if everything we regard as American is indeed foreign?

Well, the answer is simple; the only true and absolutely authentic American value and believe is our concept of "individual freedom". This concept is so strong and powerful that it has survived the test of time and protected our democracy to the point of making it a beacon for the world.

Our concept of freedom is so powerful that it even negates the need of a given culture and/or language to exist. In fact, it is the power of our concept of freedom that allows us to assimilate as much or as little as we want from any culture in the world and still remain uniquely American.

In the process, our freedom compels us to use our imagination and reshape, transform, refine, etc. everything we assimilate and end up with a uniquely American version of the original; talk about hot dogs, Taco Bell and Brooklyn style pizza.

You should trust more the power of our concept of freedom. Immigrants certainly do and eventually are compelled to make it their own regardless of the believes they might have brought when they first arrived to the US.

That is the true America; "E pluribus Unum" by the uniqueness and immensely creative as well as galvanizing power of our concept of freedom.

I sincerely believe that our Forefathers and certainly Thomas Jefferson as well as George Mason, from whom Jefferson borrowed much of the preamble in our Declaration of Independence, initially did not realize the magnitude of their contribution both to America and to human kind.

I am positive though that the power of this concept overwhelmed them later. It certainly overwhelmed John Adams whose letter to Thomas Jefferson on June 28, 1813 is absolutely eloquent.

“The general Principles, on which the Fathers Atchieved Independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite…. And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all those Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty, in which all those young Men United, and which had United all Parties in America, in Majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her Independence.
Now I will avow, that I then believed, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Christianity, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System. I could therefore safely say, consistently with all my then and present Information, that I believe they would never make Discoveries in contradiction to these general Principles.”

The overwhelming power of our concept of freedom was also evident for John Quincy Adams in his argument before the Supreme Court to make the black slaves of the “Amistad” free.

"The moment you come to the Declaration of Independence, that every man has a right to life and liberty, an inalienable right, this case is decided. I ask nothing more in behalf of these unfortunate men than this Declaration."

This is indeed what America is all about and what we, the people, should treasure and protect.

3) Learning a language is also a process. It is easier to learn a language when you are young than it is when you are a mature person. It is easier to learn a language when you do not have to work two and three low paying jobs to barely survive.

The idea that Latino immigrants do not want to learn the language is a fabrication. If you could buy a pill that taught you English you would see a line of Latinos in front of Walgreens as far as your site can reach.

Though everything is stacked against them, current statistics show that Latinos are indeed learning English, want to learn English and as a matter of fact, the rate and degree of assimilation in second and third generation of Latinos is nothing short of amazing.

Do not fall for the easy concepts and slogans of the anti-immigration zealots. Try to picture yourself without a visa, in a low income neighborhood in Paris, subject to discrimination and working two or three low paying jobs and then tell me how long you think it will take you to learn French.

We have an immigration problem, but we need to look at it seriously, creatively, under the light of our fundamental principles and come up with an intelligent and long lasting solution.

4) I must concede that I still do not have an answer to your concerns about the Muslim immigration. I am currently reading voraciously to learn about the Muslim religion but I am still an ignorant and therefore unable to give an opinion. I can share with you some of my doubts though.

While I hold Muslims to the same standards as any other human being in the world and further, I believe them to have exactly the same rights to freedom and the pursuit of happiness as every other human being, I am not sure if a Muslim is allowed to embrace the concept of individual freedom that is the corner stone and essence of our identity. As far as I know, for Muslims, there is no freedom outside religion; religion is life itself and there is nothing and no one allowed beyond that.

In contrast, our concept of freedom allows us to even deny God himself and be agnostics. While this is a very strong statement it still measures up to the test of Christian religions because they believe in “free will” and the individual pursuit of salvation or damnation.

Having said this, I should mention that Turkey is in fact a Muslim country with a secular government that seems to be working well. Also, there is a large community of Muslims in the United States that seem to be in agreement and at peace with our concept of freedom.

As I said, I am still an ignorant and therefore I would appreciate if you would give me a rain check on this issue. I am not going to avoid the issue tough and will write about it as soon as I feel comfortable with my knowledge of the religion and convinced that its teachings are indeed compatible with our concept of freedom.

4:58 AM  
Blogger Bauta said...

Dear Mousqueton, your comment was very long but I'd like to debate a few points.
Granted, by 1900 the foreign born population of New York and many other cities was probably bigger in percentage points than today's. But there were several differences.
First, in every major US city there were Italian, Polish, Irish, German and even Spanish and French neighborhoods. That meant they all had different languages, so they needed English if they wanted to interact. Not today. Every major city has big Hispanic populations that basically survive without English.
Second difference. In the early 1900's communications and transportation was very scarce and expensive. That meant that few immigrants went back to their countries of origins to visit and they never spent hours on the phone with their relatives back in Poland or Italy, so the ties with those countries became weaker and weaker in a matter of years. Not today. Most immigrants come from Latin America, just a step across a mostly imaginary border. For a few cents a minute they can talk to their relatives and for a few hundred dollars they come and go. Yes or not?
There is a third difference. In the early 1900's America as a nation was almost in its infancy, for most of the country was less than one century old. That meant two things. Most of the country was not heavily populated and we were still assimilating other cultures as much as other cultures were assimilating to us. For example, Germans were bringing their hot dogs and Italians their pizzas just to give a couple of examples. Today, America is a much more mature country, with many cities over populated and with a culture that originated or developed here in the mid 1900's (Rock and roll, baseball and football being three examples) and that is alien to most new comers. But culture is more than just music, sports and food. Americans want to live the American way. When we buy a house we buy it for our family. We don't like it when right next door three families live together with five old cars in their driveway. Culture is having the right number of children. The right number being the number you can sustain without government assistance. Culture is trying to follow the spirit of the law in everything you do, like for example, not trying to build a car dealership in your driveway while real dealers are paying taxes and rent to keep their lot. I could give you many more examples, but I guess you get the point.
Don't get me wrong, I am not against immigrants, but I think this country really needs a moratorium to let today's immigrants assimilate.
Keep it up,

2:21 PM  
Blogger El Gringo said...

Andres, personally, I think the bill is an amnesty bill and we should take an enforcement first approach, but to your argument that this bill would favor the educated and english-speaking and result in less Latin immigration (assuming we could protect the borders to stop them from coming illegally) my question is "So What?"

We are the USA. We need to look out for what is best for the USA, not what is best for Mexico. That's the Mexican's job and they don't do very well at it.

I've always wondered why, if Mexico doesn't care about it's own people, are we supposed to do it for them?

10:20 AM  
Blogger Bauta said...

Vary good Gabo Gringo.

10:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Thorsen:

The word is "hispanics", ignorant go back to school. I am a professional from Latin American who speaks not two, but five languages.

3:41 PM  
Blogger Luis F. Jaramillo Q. said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

8:19 PM  
Blogger Luis F. Jaramillo Q. said...

Well, For those who say that the USA must not have concerns about Latin America, I think they are wrong, specially if you´re the dominating superpower in the world. This is not about loving hispanics. This is about finding opportunities for Latin America. If Latin America does not find opportunities (With american conditioned aid, such as made in the European Union), inmigration, simply won´t stop, even, with walls and walls (Such as soviets made in Berlin). In fact, if there is that wall, most people could try to get into America via Canada or by plane. There´s just a solution... Developement for LATAM, and that´s the same for the African case in Europe. America must no forget Latin America (Such as Bush Gov. has done), but Latin America must understand that the right heading for development is right to the north, to the USA, with FTA´s and conditioned aid.

8:20 PM  
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6:32 PM  

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